If my grandma would have to go into a care home?

Jlawson118

This is more of a planning for the future financially kind of post;

Long story building up to this, but after realising earlier this year that my 76 year old grandma's mobility was getting worse, and her dementia diagnosis in April, myself and my girlfriend moved in with her in May.

We've had an incline for a couple of years that she's had dementia but was officially diagnosed in April. She was given medication that we've been told 'should' slow the disease down if not stop it completely, but will not reverse anything. But after moving in with her, we're realising that her condition is a lot worse than we originally thought. We're not sure exactly what stage of the condition is, but the weird thing is, her long, mid and short term memory is fantastic.
It's more her moods and speech that can be difficult sometimes. But since moving in, we've also discovered we have a baby on the way as well and as much as my grandma seems excited, I'm not sure how she'll take to the new situation.

But my post is more concern for our financial future if her condition was to become worse and she was to go into care.

As I know we would have to sell her house to pay for the care, would that essentially make myself and my girlfriend homeless? I'm sure there'd be a bit of leeway somewhere to give us time to find somewhere to live? But I've also often wondered once the value of the house runs out in the terms of care costs, what happens then?

My grandma's house is left to me in her and my grandad's will, and myself and my mum have LPAs for my grandma's finance and property.

Financially, at the moment I'm currently selling my apartment and once my mortgage is paid off, and other debts I have I should have about £20,000 left over that I have been wanting to save towards a house deposit in the future if it comes to moving out. Once sold and I have no other bills, I've been hoping to harshly save around 75% of my salary on top. 

If my grandma doesn't go into care and we stay living in the home, the money is there for if we decide to buy a place of our own or renovate the current house (Not overly renovate but such as the house needs a complete re-wire etc)

Obviously for my grandma's sake, I don't want to ever have to ship her off to a care home. My grandad worked the majority of his life to pay for the house and build so many memories in it since the 1970s. I'd like my grandma to remain living in it for the rest of her days and I know she would too.

But fearing the worst, how does it all work? 

Keep_pedalling

If she ended up going into care once her savings run out the house would need to be sold to pay for her care. She eWorld remain fully funded until her assets had fallen to around £24k at which point her care would be funded by the LA with contribution from her income and savings. Once her savings had fallen to £14k she would only contribute from income.

Having other people living with her is likely to delay the need for her going into care, but caring for anyone with advanced dementia is hard and is not to be taken lightly.

Jlawson118

Keep_pedalling said:

Having other people living with her is likely to delay the need for her going into care, but caring for anyone with advanced dementia is hard and is not to be taken lightly.

Hopefully everything will delay the need for care, and really hope the medication is at least working but we're not 100% as of yet.
This is why I'm trying to plan ahead as I can imagine it's very hard. One of my neighbours when I lived in my apartment, her husband had it and she's told me many stories that fear we'll be in the same boat. And it will be more than likely as I know there is no real cure for the disease 

gizmo111

If you are saving for a home of your own, but want to stay in your grandma's long term even if she did have to go into a home, would you be able to afford to buy the house off her at the market value and then use the money to pay her fees? 

elsien

As a self funder she would be entitled to still claim attendance allowance. 

There might also the option of you paying a proper market rent to stay in the house, but as LPA you/your mum would be your landlord so not sure how that would work!
You also need to think about the situation if it’s too much for you and your partner, and she needs paid carers to come in to support as well as you two- she will need to make a financial contribution to that as well, although the house would be disregarded while still living in it.
There is some very good information about funding care at home and residential/nursing care on the age UK website.

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-a-care-home/
This is a start;  I’m fairly sure there’s a more in-depth one somewhere on the site.

 Don’t underestimate how hard it can be caring for someone with dementia who is up all night, starts to not recognise you, accuses you of theft or being a stranger in her house. Worst case scenarios but these are all situations that I’ve seen. Even with the medication her dementia will still progress unfortunately, Although it’s also possible she may be one of the people who is content and are not fighting against it so much. https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-a-care-home/It’s a horrible illness.

calleyw

Why did sell you flat?  Would it not have made sense to keep it and rent it out so you had somewhere to go to.  Also I really don't think a baby and dementia will really mix.  its going to be confusing for her. And her age why should be having her life disrupted that way.

I get the feeling you want to have your cake and eat it.  You want somewhere to live with out paying for it.  Forget about what might inherit.  Your grandmothers needs come first.  You have no idea how this may progress, can you and your GF manage with her if she became violent? Wandering off in the middle of the night leaving all the doors open etc etc.  And you want to bring a child in to that mix?

Forget about your position and think about what is best for your grandmother

pickledonionspaceraider

Reading this, the obvious thing is do not sell your flat.  You have put yourselves into this situation

Jlawson118

calleyw said:

Why did sell you flat?  Would it not have made sense to keep it and rent it out so you had somewhere to go to.  Also I really don't think a baby and dementia will really mix.  its going to be confusing for her. And her age why should be having her life disrupted that way.

I get the feeling you want to have your cake and eat it.  You want somewhere to live with out paying for it.  Forget about what might inherit.  Your grandmothers needs come first.  You have no idea how this may progress, can you and your GF manage with her if she became violent? Wandering off in the middle of the night leaving all the doors open etc etc.  And you want to bring a child in to that mix?

Forget about your position and think about what is best for your grandmother

pickledonionspaceraider said:

Reading this, the obvious thing is do not sell your flat.  You have put yourselves into this situation

With my flat, it's one bedroom which wouldn't have been suitable to raise a child in, in the long term. I actually bought the flat before I met my girlfriend so at the time of purchase I didn't plan for any of this. But one of the main reasons I've wanted to sell is due to the extraordinary services charges that are increasing more and more each year. It was a hard decision to make but I had to do it. I've owned the flat for four years and the service charges have almost doubled what I was paying four years ago and over the years has contributed to debts I owe.

If it weren't for those charges, I would have put it up for rent, as homes in that area generate a good amount of monthly income vs costs (not including the leasehold) and with the income coming into the bank there would be nothing stopping me from buying another home to rent, without the costly charges.

@Calleyw, I dispute your comments about wanting somewhere to live without paying for it. As much as I'll admit that moving in and selling my flat is one quick way out of those rapidly increasing charges, but I still work full time and gladly still pay my way and contribute to the household bills in my grandma's house, especially with rising bills, and I never for one second said that I was bothered about "What I inherit." We've wanted to save up for a house deposit of our own and that has always been the plan, even from living in my flat. 

We didn't plan for this baby at all and from the very beginning sat my grandma down and discussed things with her. I said if it would be an issue then we would look for somewhere else to live, but she's shown nothing but joy since finding out. You are right in saying we don't know how this will progress, and this is why I do want to financially plan out for if something does, hence the post. But at the moment we are just living for the moment.

I'm not overly convinced medication will slow the condition down either. My post was merely trying to plan out for "What if?" and not in any selfish only thinking of myself. It's more a lack of understanding on how these situations do work as it will be myself who has to arrange it all and I have no idea how it works or what to do

Jlawson118

elsien said:

As a self funder she would be entitled to still claim attendance allowance. 

There might also the option of you paying a proper market rent to stay in the house, but as LPA you/your mum would be your landlord so not sure how that would work!
You also need to think about the situation if it’s too much for you and your partner, and she needs paid carers to come in to support as well as you two- she will need to make a financial contribution to that as well, although the house would be disregarded while still living in it.
There is some very good information about funding care at home and residential/nursing care on the age UK website.

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-a-care-home/
This is a start;  I’m fairly sure there’s a more in-depth one somewhere on the site.

 Don’t underestimate how hard it can be caring for someone with dementia who is up all night, starts to not recognise you, accuses you of theft or being a stranger in her house. Worst case scenarios but these are all situations that I’ve seen. Even with the medication her dementia will still progress unfortunately, Although it’s also possible she may be one of the people who is content and are not fighting against it so much. https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-a-care-home/It’s a horrible illness.

Thank you! Myself and my girlfriend were discussing things before I posted this and carers coming to the home was something we both agreed we think we'd require first before care homes come into the equation.

The parts where she doesn't recognise us and thinks we're strangers is what I fear the most. It's sad to see her how she is now. We thought watching my grandad suffer with cancer was bad but seeing my grandma not quite being, well, my grandma is even more sad.

We're really not sure which direction the dementia is taking to be honest. She is still quite independent, and it's more her arthritis that holds her back from doing most things. She'll tell us stories from when she was younger, about life with my grandad and even right up to a conversation we could have had with her yesterday, her memory is fantastic! But it is more the mood swings and her speech. She doesn't lash out at us (but I know it's certainly a potential for the future) but more she'll go quiet and into a world of her own. She won't do anything to stimulate her mind like puzzles, drawing or reading like she used to, I know this is because she just simply can't do them anymore

elsien

Your starting point if she begins to need additional paid care would be to request a Care Act assessment from the local authority. Any support she needs would be means tested but they have to carry out the needs assessment before looking at the finances so that should give you a clearer picture about what help she does need and how to access it.

If she does that needs 24-hour care then you’re also going to need to look at whether that’s residential or nursing top up or full nursing care. Full nursing care is free but incredibly difficult to get. But the care act assessment would be a starting point anyway. 

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/arranging-care/care-needs-assessment/

If she does at any point need to go into care and the house has to be sold, there is a deferred payment scheme which your local council would have information about where they would pay and she would reimburse once the house was sold.

ka7e

I would recommend you sign up to the Alzheimer's forum Talking Point - lots of resources and info available to carers and family.https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/get-support/dementia-talking-point-our-online-community

Your Gran sounds as though she is actually still in the early stages, the symptoms you describe are the same as those my husband had. He was eventually diagnosed with both mild Alzheimer's and vascular dementia (Mixed dementia) and only started having real memory problems after a series of mini strokes. If vascular dementia is part of the diagnosis, there is a regime of blood thinners, statins and BP medication to follow. Has your Gran had an MRI and vascular scan?

Not all dementia sufferers get violent or wander, they may just become disengaged. Their rate of deterioration varies hugely, but having a routine within a family setting can be very beneficial. Odd behaviours and preferences can appear and then vanish overnight. My husband adores having babies and children around, but he does take his hearing aids out when they cry!

If Gran needs help around the house, with taking meds regularly, preparing food or personal care (even laundry or choosing appropriate clothes) then she may be entitled to Attendance Allowance. If you or your girlfriend are providing any of that care for 35 hours a week (which includes nights), you can then apply for Carer's Allowance (AA must come first).

I will just say, that if you take on the "burden of care" for any length of time you may find it difficult to hand it over unless Gran is unwell enough to need residential care. There is a shortage of carers and Gran will be seen as low priority for help if she has family living with her.