People's Pension Transfer Nightmare

bermondse1

There's been a lot of negative media coverage earlier this year on People's Pension, and I'm suffering their appalling service currently.

I have a small People's Pension fund built up from previous employer due to auto-enrollment. My main pension fund is a long-standing SIPP with Halifax, so want to consolidate the auto-enrollment funds I built up over to my Halifax SIPP.

In terms of timeline:
1) Request the transfer mid-August
2) 2 months later they issue a questionnaire asking for details of the receiving scheme. That was returned the day they sent it.
3) 3 weeks ago they reply saying I've not answered 2 questions on fees completely. I replied again on the day the email was received indicating that the fees question doesn't apply because I have a SIPP and I don't incur fund fees..

3 months after requesting a transfer of the pension fund from People's Pension, no transfer, and I'm stuck in a kafka-esque situation where they seem unable to transfer the funds citing the transfer being flagged under the recent Pension's Act protections to stop scam transfers.

Having reviewed the Red and Amber flags under the regulations I don't believe any are triggered.

This is a straight forward DC to DC transfer for consolidation - no incentives have been offered; no pressure from any advisor; it's not a QROP, the receiving fund is not an occupational scheme, so it should be a low risk transfer.

Despite stating that clearly, they would appear to just want to ignore that and have what appears to be some warped interpretation of the regulations. Their questionaire in particular seems to have pre-conceived view on what the receiving scheme should look like. Specifically it fails to account for SIPPs with the flexibility in investment options.

Today I received a response to my complaint on the timescales for transfer, basically indicating that as far as they are concerned there's no complaint to answer, and they were asking the question again on asking for fund fees...despite it not being applicable and having already repeated that 3 weeks ago.

So I'm currently stuck in a pension scheme I didn't choose and I don't believe is appropriate for me, apparently because of anti-scam regulations?

Any advice on dealing with this shambles of a company?

Cheers!

Albermarle

I replied again on the day the email was received indicating that the fees question doesn't apply because I have a SIPP and I don't incur fund fees..

Funds in a SIPP incur investment fees, just the same as in other type of pension. Are you saying you hold individual shares or cash in the SIPP?

sandsy

If you're not going to be holding funds in the SIPP with the transferred monies, what will you be investing in? Just tell them and then give them the associated costs.

bermondse1

Albermarle said:

I replied again on the day the email was received indicating that the fees question doesn't apply because I have a SIPP and I don't incur fund fees..

Funds in a SIPP incur investment fees, just the same as in other type of pension. Are you saying you hold individual shares or cash in the SIPP?

Individual shares, with some cash to enable me to time my investments.

My admin admin fees are capped as well, so I incur no additional fees as a result of the transfer.

bermondse1

sandsy said:

If you're not going to be holding funds in the SIPP with the transferred monies, what will you be investing in? Just tell them and then give them the associated costs.

Individual shares.

And given my admin fees are capped, I don't incur any additional fees as a result of this transfer.

I've told them this, but they don't seem to get it!?

xylophone

My main pension fund is a long-standing SIPP with Halifax, so want to consolidate the auto-enrollment funds I built up over to my Halifax SIPP.

I replied again on the day the email was received indicating that the fees question doesn't apply because I have a SIPP and I don't incur fund fees..

https://www.halifax.co.uk/investing/start-investing/share-dealing-services/charges.html

Halifax list charges in the above.

https://thepeoplespension.co.uk/help/knowledgebase/how-do-transfer-my-savings-from-the-peoples-pension-to-another-provider/

Did you follow the process outlined above?

https://www.halifax.co.uk/investing/start-investing/share-dealing-services/sipp.html

Did you complete the Halifax transfer in form?

bermondse1

xylophone said:

My main pension fund is a long-standing SIPP with Halifax, so want to consolidate the auto-enrollment funds I built up over to my Halifax SIPP.

I replied again on the day the email was received indicating that the fees question doesn't apply because I have a SIPP and I don't incur fund fees..

https://www.halifax.co.uk/investing/start-investing/share-dealing-services/charges.html

Halifax list charges in the above.

https://thepeoplespension.co.uk/help/knowledgebase/how-do-transfer-my-savings-from-the-peoples-pension-to-another-provider/

Did you follow the process outlined above?

https://www.halifax.co.uk/investing/start-investing/share-dealing-services/sipp.html

Did you complete the Halifax transfer in form?

Xylophone - process has been followed, information's been provided.

Halifax are not the problem - they have actually been really helpful, and actually alerted me 2 months after the initial request that People's Pension still hadn't made the transfer....

The problem lies with People's Pension interpretation of Pension regulations. The following link highlights similar allegations to my experience, by PensionBee, though in my case there's no inccentive so I shouldn't fall foul of that.

B&CE hits back at PensionBee transfer abuse claims (professionalpensions.com)

dunstonh

3) 3 weeks ago they reply saying I've not answered 2 questions on fees completely. I replied again on the day the email was received indicating that the fees question doesn't apply because I have a SIPP and I don't incur fund fees..

That question is in place to catch people who don't understand what they are doing and could be doing something wrong.

Answering that there are no charges would be a flag to have the case reviewed.

My admin admin fees are capped as well, so I incur no additional fees as a result of the transfer.

So, you are incurring charges.

In my experience, the auto-enrolment schemes have taken the guidelines and interpreted them to a more extreme level that the individual retail pension providers have not.   It doesn't matter which one is is, they seem to have put in place more significant barriers than retail pensions.     The mainstream retail  providers have been much more measured.    e.g.  if both providers use Origo and the receiving scheme is a mainstream provider.  e.g. if it was going to Aviva or Abrdn, then they wouldn't need to look too deeply.  They don't even get the information form completed.   But if it was going to a non-Origo receiving scheme or a non-mainstream scheme or a scheme that has a reputation of alternative assets then they would ask for the form.

I have arranged dozens of transfers since the guidelines came into play and not one retail pension or ae schemes from traditional providers has asked for the form(or where it was in the transfer pack, we didn't fill it in and return it).  However, each of the AE schemes has wanted the form in every case.  

The guidelines are such that each firm interprets the requirements and puts in place their own in-house rules.  So, there is actually nothing being done wrong here.  They have just taken an approach that is  far more aggressive than most others and that can be frustrating.

Halifax is not a major provider and is primarily used for investing in 100% loss potential, non FSCS protected assets.   It does use Origo.   So, knowing that, you can understand why a scheme may ask more questions.

I realise my response says their approach is more aggressive but then gives the reasons why it may be suitable for them to be that way in this case.

bermondse1

dunstonh said:

3) 3 weeks ago they reply saying I've not answered 2 questions on fees completely. I replied again on the day the email was received indicating that the fees question doesn't apply because I have a SIPP and I don't incur fund fees..

That question is in place to catch people who don't understand what they are doing and could be doing something wrong.

Answering that there are no charges would be a flag to have the case reviewed.

My admin admin fees are capped as well, so I incur no additional fees as a result of the transfer.

So, you are incurring charges.

Yes, incurring charges, but given my fees are capped, the transfer actually leaves me better off, as I will no longer pay the (hidden) People's Pension fund charges.

Also, that's not how the question is phrased in the questionnaire they sent through. The two multipart questions they say haven't been answered completely are:

6 a) What investment funds do you expect your transferred money to be invested in? Please provide details if the money will be invested overseas. (I don't invest in funds and the money isn't invested overseas.)
b) Have you been promised a specific or guaranteed rate of return once you transfer? (No)
c) Have you been provided with any written information about the investments, rates of return or what the fee structure will be? (
Yes to the last bit only, quarterly SIPP admin fee).

8 Do you know what the costs and charges are in the scheme you intend to transfer to? (Yes)
a) What are they? (Quarterly SIPP admin fee + a transfer admin fee. No other charges are relevant).
b) Any fees or reductions applied to the transfer (Yes - as declared in a, above)
c) Are there fees to join the investment (No)
d) What charges are applied to your savings whilst they are invested? (Quarterly SIPP admin fee as detailed above).
e) Are there any other extra charge that can apply to your savings? (No).

The help blurb on both Q6 and Q8 states: If Yes, you can either answer the questions below or provide a copy of the fee structure document and fund charges (you may also hear this referred to as a fund factsheet).

The problem is I don't have a formal fee structure document (fees are on the Halifax website, but they don't print out completely, and there's no document I can download), and since I don't invest in funds, some of the questions just aren't relevant and I don't have a fund factsheet I can supply, so I've answered the questions as best I can given the limited space for the answers.

I'm not against the questionnaire, but they need to own their process and it's failings. The whole thing is shrouded in mystery on their side. No committed timelines for the transfer, replies are glacial. They apparently do nothing for 2 months, and don't bother to tell me. When I complain, they then decide to send me the questionnaire, which I've filled in, only to be told that I need to give them more information but they haven't told me what's actually missing or which bits of the answers they're not happy with?! 3 weeks later I'm still waiting.

Hence 3 months on, I feel I'm going nowhere and don't know how to break the deadlock.

Halifax's SIPP is actually a rebrand of AJBell, who are not an insignificant player.

I take your point re loss potential, but that's a fact with all SIPPs - and given recent issues in many pension funds going bust, who's to say they are any safer? Given anyone can open a SIPP, it's not for any pension provider to effectively ban them by frustrating or refusing a transfer. The regulations are aimed at tackling scams, not preventing consolidation of pension schemes.

I've asked People's Pension tell me what is causing them to flag the transfer under the regulations, because I don't agree with their assessment, or what additional information they need that I haven't supplied, as they have failed to do so to date.

dunstonh

8 Do you know what the costs and charges are in the scheme you intend to transfer to? (Yes)
a) What are they? (Quarterly SIPP admin fee + a transfer admin fee. No other charges are relevant).
b) Any fees or reductions applied to the transfer (Yes - as declared in a, above)
c) Are there fees to join the investment (No)
d) What charges are applied to your savings whilst they are invested? (Quarterly SIPP admin fee as detailed above).
e) Are there any other extra charge that can apply to your savings? (No).

a)  dealing charges not mentioned.  Probably wouldnt make a difference to the outcome
b) this one is a potential red flag.   You should have said no as the charges you mention are not initial charges.

Halifax's SIPP is actually a rebrand of AJBell, who are not an insignificant player.

The ceding scheme almost certainly do not know that and it probably wouldn't matter as Halifax is a small player.   And I don't think it is a rebrand. It looks more like a white label.    The receiving scheme would have told them that the name is "Halifax Share Dealing Self Invested Personal Pension"

I take your point re loss potential, but that's a fact with all SIPPs - and given recent issues in many pension funds going bust, who's to say they are any safer?

Would you like to name any of these recent pension funds going bust as I cannot think of any?
Equitable Life many many decades ago but none since.  
Pension funds get 100% FSCS protection with no upper limit
OEIC/UTs, which are the other main fund types used in most SIPPs dont get as much FSCS protection at 85k but they haven't been going bust either.

I've asked People's Pension tell me what is causing them to flag the transfer under the regulations, because I don't agree with their assessment, or what additional information they need that I haven't supplied, as they have failed to do so to date.

My gut feeling is that its down to your selection of "Halifax Share Dealing Self Invested Personal Pension" as the first thing that draws their attention. Followed by unclear charging declaration (fees or reductions to the transfer) and finally you using direct assets in the form of shares.    There are enough flags there to take a deeper dive into the information.

And none of the above justifies taking the time you have had to wait. It would take a competent person about 2 minutes to see whether it was a fraud or not.   I would be as frustrated as you.

[Deleted User]

Looks like basic incompetence on their part.  

Two years ago I transferred an old company pension to X-O SIPP. Seem to recall it taking about 2 weeks. No FSCS “protection” at X-O either. 

Assume you tried calling Peoples Pension and asking what their problem could be?