Help me

GiantTCR

GiantTCR said:

dougiec78 said:

My boss has emailed me to say that as of the 1st of December she wants the staff to go self employed and raised out hourly rate from £10 to £11 an hour, how do I stand with holiday pay that should be owed to us for the Christmas break as we will not be working for 14 days 

Sounds like an illegal move to me and a clear way for your boss to cut her tax bill.

Actually, thinking again, I'm not sure if this is an illegal thing to do anymore. I'm no subject matter expert but I know in the last few years the tory government has done a lot to slash employees' rights.

I'd say no to your boss or I would ask for 20 quid an hour, then find something else because you shouldn't be messed about.

Undervalued

GiantTCR said:

GiantTCR said:

dougiec78 said:

My boss has emailed me to say that as of the 1st of December she wants the staff to go self employed and raised out hourly rate from £10 to £11 an hour, how do I stand with holiday pay that should be owed to us for the Christmas break as we will not be working for 14 days 

Sounds like an illegal move to me and a clear way for your boss to cut her tax bill.

Actually, thinking again, I'm not sure if this is an illegal thing to do anymore. I'm no subject matter expert but I know in the last few years the tory government has done a lot to slash employees' rights.

I'd say no to your boss or I would ask for 20 quid an hour, then find something else because you shouldn't be messed about.

Which is fine if the OP can easily find an alternative.

The OP hasn't said how long they have been employed. If it is less than two years then they have no meaningful employment protection and can be "let go" just by being given a week's notice.

Irrespective of "legalities", I agree that the self employed equivalent pay would need to be significantly more than is being offered to be cash neutral.

Providing that the OP declares their income than any comeback as a result of the the "questionable" self employment would fall of the employer and not the OP.

It is very easy for somebody on a forum to suggest that the OP tells the employer to shove it! However as I say, if they need the income then they need to find a better alternative first. 

TBagpuss

GiantTCR said:

GiantTCR said:

dougiec78 said:

My boss has emailed me to say that as of the 1st of December she wants the staff to go self employed and raised out hourly rate from £10 to £11 an hour, how do I stand with holiday pay that should be owed to us for the Christmas break as we will not be working for 14 days 

Sounds like an illegal move to me and a clear way for your boss to cut her tax bill.

Actually, thinking again, I'm not sure if this is an illegal thing to do anymore. I'm no subject matter expert but I know in the last few years the tory government has done a lot to slash employees' rights.

I'd say no to your boss or I would ask for 20 quid an hour, then find something else because you shouldn't be messed about.

As I understand it, OP's boss would be dismissing her , as she is currently an employee. So, assuming that OP has worked for her for 2 years or longer, boss would have to have a fair reason for dismissal.

It's POSSIBLE(OP would need to get advice) that it could be a redundancy situation as the employer would no longer be employing peopel for thatrole, they would be outsourcing to self-employed subcontractors instrad. So they would have to follow reducnancy rules and would be liabke for the appropriate payments. 

OP, if you are willing to become self-wmployed then you need to do your research and work out what a reasonable rate wouldbe - as a self employed person you would be responsible for pying your own tax and NI, would no longer get holidya or sick pay and would not  longer have an entitlement to  workplace pension or any contributions towards that. 

You would also need to thnk about whther, if youdid become self employed, you would have other expenses to pay - for isntnacse , would you feel that you neeedto pay an accountnat to deal with your tax returns? Do you have work reated expenses which yourr employer might expect you to start to cover for yourself (e.g. materials or tools)? If you have worked for morethan 2 years, what's the vlaue to you ofthe rights you have built up and your entitlement to redundancy if the business failed, for instnace?

Being slf employed can also make a difference to things such as mortgage applications. 

And as others have said, if the plan is that you carry on as before ut labelled as self emplpoyed then there may be issues as you won't fit the criteria, and it putsyou at risk of just not being given any work.

I'd suggest that you will probably be better off remaining as an employee.

check you postion - CAs r CAB may be able to advise, but subjectto what they say, you might want to tell her that you prefer to remain an employee, and if she says you can't , then get further advice as it's probable that youshe would need to make you redundant, she can't just tell you to become self-employed.

If you have worked for her for less than 2 years then she can, unfortuantely, dismiss you for any non-discriminatory reaon, but she would have to pay you for holiyda acrued but not taken, and can't force you to then return to work for her as a contractor (and if you are willing to cecome a contractor, you need to set a realistic hourly rate) 


Assuming that you are over 23, NMW is due to go up to£10.42 in April so she's basically expecging you to give up all your employment rights, paidholiday and pension for 58p an hour (from April) 

in relation to the holiday question, you are entitled to the amount of holidya built up in the period up to when your employment ends. So if you were to agree to resign and become self-employed from 1st Dec, you would need to calculate how much holiyda you are entitled to for that period (if your holiday year runs from 1st Jan and you get 28 days holiday a year then you would accrue, I think, 26.6 days by the end of November so would be entitled to be paid for that number less any days you have already used. 

Exodi

GiantTCR said:

GiantTCR said:

dougiec78 said:

My boss has emailed me to say that as of the 1st of December she wants the staff to go self employed and raised out hourly rate from £10 to £11 an hour, how do I stand with holiday pay that should be owed to us for the Christmas break as we will not be working for 14 days 

Sounds like an illegal move to me and a clear way for your boss to cut her tax bill.

Actually, thinking again, I'm not sure if this is an illegal thing to do anymore. I'm no subject matter expert but I know in the last few years the tory government has done a lot to slash employees' rights.

I'd say no to your boss or I would ask for 20 quid an hour, then find something else because you shouldn't be messed about.

I understand you're no subject matter expert, but please could you tell me how "the last few years the tory government has done a lot to slash employees' rights" has caused the OP's employer to decide that it's in their best interest to cease employment of the OP? Surely all this 'slashing of employees' rights' should have had the opposite effect, no?

Could you also enlighten me with a few examples of the 'slashes to employees' rights' from the last few years? I'd have actually thought the opposite was probably more likely to be true, given the WFH movement which, at least publicly, seems to be favoured by employees, where many employers are struggling to get people back in to the office.

Then dusted off with the old classic 'if it was me...' . I mean that's probably not the smartest idea, asking the employer to double their pay or quitting. If this is a cost saving exercise by the employer (which it looks to be), it may be a spectacular own goal to quit, especially without having anything lined up. I'm sure the employer would think all their christmas's have come at once to have an employee quit, just when they're staring down the barrel of potential redundancy.

Undervalued said:

Which is fine if the OP can easily find an alternative.
...
It is very easy for somebody on a forum to suggest that the OP tells the employer to shove it! However as I say, if they need the income then they need to find a better alternative first. 

A thread on the employment subforum wouldn't be complete without someone wading in with 'if it was me, I'd tell them where to stick it'.

GiantTCR

Exodi said:

GiantTCR said:

GiantTCR said:

dougiec78 said:

My boss has emailed me to say that as of the 1st of December she wants the staff to go self employed and raised out hourly rate from £10 to £11 an hour, how do I stand with holiday pay that should be owed to us for the Christmas break as we will not be working for 14 days 

Sounds like an illegal move to me and a clear way for your boss to cut her tax bill.

Actually, thinking again, I'm not sure if this is an illegal thing to do anymore. I'm no subject matter expert but I know in the last few years the tory government has done a lot to slash employees' rights.

I'd say no to your boss or I would ask for 20 quid an hour, then find something else because you shouldn't be messed about.

I understand you're no subject matter expert, but please could you tell me how "the last few years the tory government has done a lot to slash employees' rights" has caused the OP's employer to decide that it's in their best interest to cease employment of the OP? Surely all this 'slashing of employees' rights' should have had the opposite effect, no?

Could you also enlighten me with a few examples of the 'slashes to employees' rights' from the last few years? I'd have actually thought the opposite was probably more likely to be true, given the WFH movement which, at least publicly, seems to be favoured by employees, where many employers are struggling to get people back in to the office.

Then dusted off with the old classic 'if it was me...' . I mean that's probably not the smartest idea, asking the employer to double their pay or quitting. If this is a cost saving exercise by the employer (which it looks to be), it may be a spectacular own goal to quit, especially without having anything lined up. I'm sure the employer would think all their christmas's have come at once to have an employee quit, just when they're staring down the barrel of potential redundancy.

Undervalued said:

Which is fine if the OP can easily find an alternative.
...
It is very easy for somebody on a forum to suggest that the OP tells the employer to shove it! However as I say, if they need the income then they need to find a better alternative first. 

A thread on the employment subforum wouldn't be complete without someone wading in with 'if it was me, I'd tell them where to stick it'.

just from a quick google search.

7 employment rights you have lost under a Tory PM - IER

Please have a read, you may learn something. You're welcome.

Exodi

GiantTCR said:

Exodi said:

GiantTCR said:

GiantTCR said:

dougiec78 said:

My boss has emailed me to say that as of the 1st of December she wants the staff to go self employed and raised out hourly rate from £10 to £11 an hour, how do I stand with holiday pay that should be owed to us for the Christmas break as we will not be working for 14 days 

Sounds like an illegal move to me and a clear way for your boss to cut her tax bill.

Actually, thinking again, I'm not sure if this is an illegal thing to do anymore. I'm no subject matter expert but I know in the last few years the tory government has done a lot to slash employees' rights.

I'd say no to your boss or I would ask for 20 quid an hour, then find something else because you shouldn't be messed about.

I understand you're no subject matter expert, but please could you tell me how "the last few years the tory government has done a lot to slash employees' rights" has caused the OP's employer to decide that it's in their best interest to cease employment of the OP? Surely all this 'slashing of employees' rights' should have had the opposite effect, no?

Could you also enlighten me with a few examples of the 'slashes to employees' rights' from the last few years? I'd have actually thought the opposite was probably more likely to be true, given the WFH movement which, at least publicly, seems to be favoured by employees, where many employers are struggling to get people back in to the office.

Then dusted off with the old classic 'if it was me...' . I mean that's probably not the smartest idea, asking the employer to double their pay or quitting. If this is a cost saving exercise by the employer (which it looks to be), it may be a spectacular own goal to quit, especially without having anything lined up. I'm sure the employer would think all their christmas's have come at once to have an employee quit, just when they're staring down the barrel of potential redundancy.

Undervalued said:

Which is fine if the OP can easily find an alternative.
...
It is very easy for somebody on a forum to suggest that the OP tells the employer to shove it! However as I say, if they need the income then they need to find a better alternative first. 

A thread on the employment subforum wouldn't be complete without someone wading in with 'if it was me, I'd tell them where to stick it'.

just from a quick google search.

7 employment rights you have lost under a Tory PM - IER

Please have a read, you may learn something. You're welcome.

That article spans law changes about a decade ago, I get the impression you haven't even read your own link... That said, I'm not suprised you've kept your responses vanishingly brief. I was quite interested to hear what 'decreased employee rights' (in your view) has to do with the employer pushing the OP to be self employed. Nothing seems to be the answer. Except a random dig, out of context, about the tories.

GiantTCR said:

Exodi said:

A thread on the employment subforum wouldn't be complete without someone wading in with 'if it was me, I'd tell them where to stick it'.

and if more people did that, instead of cowardly accept whatever your employer throws at you, we'd all be better off.

I guess for some people it's just easier to put their head down and accept anything.

What, mindlessly quit jobs in an emotional outburst, possibly moments before a redundancy package is offered?

Is that what non-cowards do then? The last member of staff that did this to one of my managers had to come back later that week with his cap in his hand because he was told he couldn't sign on having made himself voluntarily unemployed.

If the OP does not having something else lined up (which other people were intuitive enough to ask before giving advice) - they would objectively be worse off following your advice - but sure, I'm sure it would make them feel good for 10 seconds.

Unfortunately being an adult means sacrificing short term gratifications for long term ones.

No-one has said 'accept anything' given to you, or to accept the employers offer - your lazy strawman argument does not work here.

GiantTCR

Exodi said:

GiantTCR said:

Exodi said:

GiantTCR said:

GiantTCR said:

dougiec78 said:

My boss has emailed me to say that as of the 1st of December she wants the staff to go self employed and raised out hourly rate from £10 to £11 an hour, how do I stand with holiday pay that should be owed to us for the Christmas break as we will not be working for 14 days 

Sounds like an illegal move to me and a clear way for your boss to cut her tax bill.

Actually, thinking again, I'm not sure if this is an illegal thing to do anymore. I'm no subject matter expert but I know in the last few years the tory government has done a lot to slash employees' rights.

I'd say no to your boss or I would ask for 20 quid an hour, then find something else because you shouldn't be messed about.

I understand you're no subject matter expert, but please could you tell me how "the last few years the tory government has done a lot to slash employees' rights" has caused the OP's employer to decide that it's in their best interest to cease employment of the OP? Surely all this 'slashing of employees' rights' should have had the opposite effect, no?

Could you also enlighten me with a few examples of the 'slashes to employees' rights' from the last few years? I'd have actually thought the opposite was probably more likely to be true, given the WFH movement which, at least publicly, seems to be favoured by employees, where many employers are struggling to get people back in to the office.

Then dusted off with the old classic 'if it was me...' . I mean that's probably not the smartest idea, asking the employer to double their pay or quitting. If this is a cost saving exercise by the employer (which it looks to be), it may be a spectacular own goal to quit, especially without having anything lined up. I'm sure the employer would think all their christmas's have come at once to have an employee quit, just when they're staring down the barrel of potential redundancy.

Undervalued said:

Which is fine if the OP can easily find an alternative.
...
It is very easy for somebody on a forum to suggest that the OP tells the employer to shove it! However as I say, if they need the income then they need to find a better alternative first. 

A thread on the employment subforum wouldn't be complete without someone wading in with 'if it was me, I'd tell them where to stick it'.

just from a quick google search.

7 employment rights you have lost under a Tory PM - IER

Please have a read, you may learn something. You're welcome.

That article spans law changes about a decade ago

It's even worse if you think about it. 10 years ago and still folks have done nothing about it. Just put their heads down and take the abuse.