Plumbing problem: foul drain smell in kitchen after using upstairs en-suite

SarahB1

Hi Everybody,

I am looking for some help as the to the best way forward to resolve a plumbing issue.

We have an upstairs en-suite and whenever we either flush the toilet or use the sink there is a bad drains smell in the kitchen (there is no smell at any other time).

We have had 4 separate plumbers look at the issue and it still isn't fixed:

1.  Dyno Rod checked for any blockages (there were non) and flushed the drains - when they were called back they said the problem must be the air admittance valve and they couldn't get to it as it was tiled-in
2. Plumber changed some pipework under the kitchen sink
3. Plumber Cleaned out all internal drains
4. Plumber replaced the air admittance valve (this was actually in the loft and not tiled-in the en-suite)

I have also used the various cleaning products and baking soda and vinegar etc. but nothing has worked.

The problem has been going on for a while and we just avoid using the en-suite, and I am trying to think of when the problem started - the only thing I can think of is that we had a new bathroom fitted upstairs fitted a while ago (although I think this problem started a while after that).

  
Any help or pointers would be appreciated - do we need to speak to another plumber or are there specialists out there? (I live in the North West, Merseyside/North Cheshire).
 

jeff_chandler

Just mooching through this forum and noticed your drain issue. 
Right, during the summer months we spend a lot of time in the garden, when one of us went to the loo we thought it was the toilet. After careful scrutiny, i came to the conclusion it wasn't the toilet but the sink. After washing hands, the smell appeared. It also occurs when showering. It turns out to be the conditioner and shampoo. I gave the conditioner bottle a good sniff and I could smell that drain odour. We changed products and it disappeared. We did clear the pipes with soda and hot water. 
Regards Jeff. 

grumbler

SarahB1 said:

  Dyno Rod ...said the problem must be the air admittance valve

...

Plumber replaced the air admittance valve

Makes no sense to me.

What appliances do you have in the kitchen and how are they plumbed into the waste?

The most likely reason is lack of a trap in some place or an empty trap (water inside dried because the appliance wasn't used for a long time).

What sort of floor is it? Any pipes under the floor?

SarahB1

grumbler said:

SarahB1 said:

  Dyno Rod ...said the problem must be the air admittance valve

...

Plumber replaced the air admittance valve

Makes no sense to me.

What appliances do you have in the kitchen and how are they plumbed into the waste?

The most likely reason is lack of a trap in some place or an empty trap (water inside dried because the appliance wasn't used for a long time).

What sort of floor is it? Any pipes under the floor?

Thanks for your reply - my gut feel was that the new valve would fix it, but my other gut feel is that it is somehow related to the dishwasher as the waste is shared with the kitchen sink (although this should have been resolved by plumber 2 ?).

Regarding the traps - the smell hasn't always been there so something has happened / changed - maybe when the bathroom was upgraded?

In the bathroom there used to be a bath and a separate shower, and the shower used to smell in the Summer if we didn't use it for a while, however a couple of uses would sort it. 

But we got rid of the separate shower and now just have the bath with the shower over the bath - maybe this could have caused a problem? 
 

diystarter7

How long have you been there?
Have you noted the smells since mivig in?
Or have you had recent alterations, and or new toilet/basin fitted etc

Are you 100% the stench is coming from where you think it is? As it times it may be another place

do the smell happen with hot and cold water?

If its only hot water it could be a rat/etc is dead lying against a hot pipe/etc and speaking the smell.

Many years ago and I posted about this a couple of weeks ago - we lived in what is called an up and over pre 1900 mid terraced house in London - massive house, split level ground floor, mid and upper levels. At times around the smae time of the day there was a stench between the door to the dining room and gas/elec cupbaord under the stairs. I though there was damp we could not see or dead rate etc under the floorboard. The stench happend as i said around a certtin time about 5/30 6pmish but oly in hot waether.  

We had a bathroom and toiet and a toilet upstairs and in hotter weather small windows were left open to cool the house.
Then I thought I'd close the windows and see if hot smell arrived around the usal times it did not - tried a few times could not work it out and then went outside - it was next door cocking fish and their extractor was at the back of the house and our open windows where in the U shape gap between the up and over houses and we were getting their fish smells land in the lowest parts of our hose and as the door was closed there and small space the smells gathers. There was me thinking it was a dead rat/drains etc.

So smell around with you nose and ask others to help to IF the exact location of the smell and when it happens EG turn on/this and the other is it hot/cold/etc

MikeJXE

It sounds to me by using the upstairs bathroom somehow thats sucking the water out of the kitchen sink trap allowing the smell through. I suggest after using the bathroom run a little water into the sink and see if the smell disappears.

SarahB1

diystarter7 said:

How long have you been there?
Have you noted the smells since mivig in?
Or have you had recent alterations, and or new toilet/basin fitted etc

Are you 100% the stench is coming from where you think it is? As it times it may be another place

do the smell happen with hot and cold water?

If its only hot water it could be a rat/etc is dead lying against a hot pipe/etc and speaking the smell.

Many years ago and I posted about this a couple of weeks ago - we lived in what is called an up and over pre 1900 mid terraced house in London - massive house, split level ground floor, mid and upper levels. At times around the smae time of the day there was a stench between the door to the dining room and gas/elec cupbaord under the stairs. I though there was damp we could not see or dead rate etc under the floorboard. The stench happend as i said around a certtin time about 5/30 6pmish but oly in hot waether.  

We had a bathroom and toiet and a toilet upstairs and in hotter weather small windows were left open to cool the house.
Then I thought I'd close the windows and see if hot smell arrived around the usal times it did not - tried a few times could not work it out and then went outside - it was next door cocking fish and their extractor was at the back of the house and our open windows where in the U shape gap between the up and over houses and we were getting their fish smells land in the lowest parts of our hose and as the door was closed there and small space the smells gathers. There was me thinking it was a dead rat/drains etc.

So smell around with you nose and ask others to help to IF the exact location of the smell and when it happens EG turn on/this and the other is it hot/cold/etc

Thanks for this - the smell only arrives after we use the en-suite, either flush the toilet or use the sink/shower

grumbler

SarahB1 said:

grumbler said:

SarahB1 said:

  Dyno Rod ...said the problem must be the air admittance valve

...

Plumber replaced the air admittance valve

Makes no sense to me.

What appliances do you have in the kitchen and how are they plumbed into the waste?

The most likely reason is lack of a trap in some place or an empty trap (water inside dried because the appliance wasn't used for a long time).

What sort of floor is it? Any pipes under the floor?

 ... but my other gut feel is that it is somehow related to the dishwasher as the waste is shared with the kitchen sink (although this should have been resolved by plumber 2 ?).

 

Can you post a photo?

In the bathroom there used to be a bath and a separate shower, and the shower used to smell in the Summer if we didn't use it for a while, however a couple of uses would sort it. 

Shower traps are usually small and water in them dries fast when the weather is hot. Fill it with water and smell stops.

Lorian

Also check the Air Admittance valve is actually pulling in air when the on-suite toilet is flushed. 

MikeJXE

Looking back at your query, in my opinion Dyno Rod back up my theory that the upstairs bathroom is sucking out the sink trap due to a faulty air admittance valve

Lorian

MikeJXE said:

Looking back at your query, in my opinion Dyno Rod back up my theory that the upstairs bathroom is sucking out the sink trap due to a faulty air admittance valve

I'm thinking when the on-suite was updated they maybe bypassed it - and when it got replaced recently it was still bypassed