How much compensation is reasonable here?

LegalNim

I moved into a new property where the previous owner had died but no one had informed the energy supplier. I bought the place about four years later and the debt had spiralled quite considerably. I moved in on Friday evening and found letters threatening to get a Warrant of Entry. I called them Monday morning first thing (no customer service open on the weekend) and they said they'd cancelled it all, no problem, not to worry, all sorted.

The next day, while we were out, they forced entry. They caused £660 of damage in doing so. They capped our gas and switched our electricity to PAYG - so no central heating and no hot water (a toddler and a newborn in the property). The new meter prevents us fully opening our front door so I can't get the pram in/out with the baby in it. I can't reach the meter so rely on my husband - I also can't get to a top-up point so rely on my husband to do that (I have epilepsy and can't drive). For every top up made, 75% goes back to paying off the debt and we're on a higher rate than the credit meter - so, we've paid about £300 of which £225 is paying off debt that isn't ours. 

The engineer who came out left us with documentation which makes no mention of changing our meter or capping our gas - and, when we initially phoned, they denied doing it. They eventually admitted it but insisted we're liable for the debt - they sent us a letter threatening to get a default against us for the debt and send recovery agents. They're still charging us the standing charge for the credit meter that's no longer installed.

They have now accepted that they did change the meter and agreed to rectify it (next year, when they can get an appointment). They've insisted they did nothing wrong and that they were entitled to enter our property because they're insisting we never phoned them prior to them changing the meter (we have proof that we phoned them). They've offered a £50 "gesture of goodwill". Given that our current out-of-pocket costs are nearing £1000 now, we obviously don't be accepting that.

What is reasonable compensation to expect here? I can't find anything online about entering a property without a legal warrant except for police, which obviously isn't the case here.

eskbanker

I'd wait until the matter is fully resolved before agreeing to any figures.

I'd also consider action against the seller, whose negligence led to this situation....

Aylesbury_Duck

Surely your home insurance is the best course of action here, especially if you have legal cover.  I don't quite understand the timeline in your opening paragraph.  What happened four years ago when you bought the property and the debt was known about?  Didn't your conveyancing solicitor advise you or deal with it then?  What's happened for the last four years where you've owned the property but not lived in it?

Compensation should put you back in the original position, so it will be a case of itemising the costs you've incurred as a result of the problem, and that is your claim, plus ask for a reasonable gesture of goodwill for your troubles.  £50 might be reasonable once your actual costs are repaid. 

Speak to your home insurance first.  This sounds like a reasonably complex situation where they may be able to help.

eskbanker

Aylesbury_Duck said:

I don't quite understand the timeline in your opening paragraph.  What happened four years ago when you bought the property and the debt was known about?  Didn't your conveyancing solicitor advise you or deal with it then?  What's happened for the last four years where you've owned the property but not lived in it?

Surely it was four years between the original owner's death and the sale, not four years since OP bought the property:

LegalNim said:

I moved into a new property where the previous owner had died but no one had informed the energy supplier. I bought the place about four years later and the debt had spiralled quite considerably.

diystarter7

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Surely your home insurance is the best course of action here, especially if you have legal cover. 

Definitely a no, no!
Why should the insurance pay/etc and IOP risk a rise in premiums
OP did the right thing A-sap it was the supplier's fault.

OP, get you out-of-pocket costs and the extra stress/insult offer of 50 quid is increased to 200 at least.

I'm no fan of compo and if they had admitted fault or said they'd check and then come back to you asap and so it out and then 50 quid, thats fine but they did not.

Mistakes happen and this was one of those but how they are dealing with it is wrong.


Good luck

Aylesbury_Duck

eskbanker said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

I don't quite understand the timeline in your opening paragraph.  What happened four years ago when you bought the property and the debt was known about?  Didn't your conveyancing solicitor advise you or deal with it then?  What's happened for the last four years where you've owned the property but not lived in it?

Surely it was four years between the original owner's death and the sale, not four years since OP bought the property:

LegalNim said:

I moved into a new property where the previous owner had died but no one had informed the energy supplier. I bought the place about four years later and the debt had spiralled quite considerably.

Quite right, apologies, I speed-read it as "... I bought the place and about four years later the debt had spiralled...".  The 'and' jumped places

powerful_Rogue

diystarter7 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Surely your home insurance is the best course of action here, especially if you have legal cover. 

Definitely a no, no!
Why should the insurance pay/etc and IOP risk a rise in premiums
OP did the right thing A-sap it was the supplier's fault.

OP, get you out-of-pocket costs and the extra stress/insult offer of 50 quid is increased to 200 at least.

I'm no fan of compo and if they had admitted fault or said they'd check and then come back to you asap and so it out and then 50 quid, thats fine but they did not.

Mistakes happen and this was one of those but how they are dealing with it is wrong.


Good luck

What are you on about? A lot of insurance polices include free legal cover, or it can be added for around £20.

It doesn't affect your insurance premiums.

Aylesbury_Duck

diystarter7 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Surely your home insurance is the best course of action here, especially if you have legal cover. 

Definitely a no, no!
Why should the insurance pay/etc and IOP risk a rise in premiums
OP did the right thing A-sap it was the supplier's fault.

OP, get you out-of-pocket costs and the extra stress/insult offer of 50 quid is increased to 200 at least.

I'm no fan of compo and if they had admitted fault or said they'd check and then come back to you asap and so it out and then 50 quid, thats fine but they did not.

Mistakes happen and this was one of those but how they are dealing with it is wrong.


Good luck

I didn't mean OP should claim on their insurance, but their insurer should be able to advise on possible resolutions, particularly if legal expenses are included.  Accessing legal cover advice doesn't risk premium increases.

I've never understood this fear of contacting insurers.  People pay hundreds - sometimes thousands - each year for buildings/cover/car insurance.  Not making use of the facilities in the policy seems daft.  I get the reluctance to claim, of course.

diystarter7

Aylesbury_Duck said:

diystarter7 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Surely your home insurance is the best course of action here, especially if you have legal cover. 

Definitely a no, no!
Why should the insurance pay/etc and IOP risk a rise in premiums
OP did the right thing A-sap it was the supplier's fault.

OP, get you out-of-pocket costs and the extra stress/insult offer of 50 quid is increased to 200 at least.

I'm no fan of compo and if they had admitted fault or said they'd check and then come back to you asap and so it out and then 50 quid, thats fine but they did not.

Mistakes happen and this was one of those but how they are dealing with it is wrong.


Good luck

I didn't mean OP should claim on their insurance, but their insurer should be able to advise on possible resolutions, particularly if legal expenses are included.  Accessing legal cover advice doesn't risk premium increases.

I've never understood this fear of contacting insurers.  People pay hundreds - sometimes thousands - each year for buildings/cover/car insurance.  Not making use of the facilities in the policy seems daft.  I get the reluctance to claim, of course.

You clearly stated that "insurance is the first line of contact." Why, what for, the wrongdoers should sort it out no reason for OP to water their time with the insurance at this stage as the company that made the mistake is no fly by night.

Now you are talking about the reasons for contacting insurance. Yeah, but not in OP's case not at this stage as I'm confident it will be sorted.

powerful_Rogue

diystarter7 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

diystarter7 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Surely your home insurance is the best course of action here, especially if you have legal cover. 

Definitely a no, no!
Why should the insurance pay/etc and IOP risk a rise in premiums
OP did the right thing A-sap it was the supplier's fault.

OP, get you out-of-pocket costs and the extra stress/insult offer of 50 quid is increased to 200 at least.

I'm no fan of compo and if they had admitted fault or said they'd check and then come back to you asap and so it out and then 50 quid, thats fine but they did not.

Mistakes happen and this was one of those but how they are dealing with it is wrong.


Good luck

I didn't mean OP should claim on their insurance, but their insurer should be able to advise on possible resolutions, particularly if legal expenses are included.  Accessing legal cover advice doesn't risk premium increases.

I've never understood this fear of contacting insurers.  People pay hundreds - sometimes thousands - each year for buildings/cover/car insurance.  Not making use of the facilities in the policy seems daft.  I get the reluctance to claim, of course.

You clearly stated that "insurance is the first line of contact." Why, what for, the wrongdoers should sort it out no reason for OP to water their time with the insurance at this stage as the company that made the mistake is no fly by night.

Now you are talking about the reasons for contacting insurance. Yeah, but not in OP's case not at this stage as I'm confident it will be sorted.

What nonsense,  - @Aylesbury_Duck said in their original reply 'especially if you have legal cover' - Without this, the insurance wouldn't do anything. Stop offering dangerous advice and trying to put the OP off contacting their insurer if they do have legal cover.

pinkshoes

LegalNim said:

I moved into a new property where the previous owner had died but no one had informed the energy supplier. I bought the place about four years later and the debt had spiralled quite considerably. I moved in on Friday evening and found letters threatening to get a Warrant of Entry. I called them Monday morning first thing (no customer service open on the weekend) and they said they'd cancelled it all, no problem, not to worry, all sorted.

The next day, while we were out, they forced entry. They caused £660 of damage in doing so. They capped our gas and switched our electricity to PAYG - so no central heating and no hot water (a toddler and a newborn in the property). The new meter prevents us fully opening our front door so I can't get the pram in/out with the baby in it. I can't reach the meter so rely on my husband - I also can't get to a top-up point so rely on my husband to do that (I have epilepsy and can't drive). For every top up made, 75% goes back to paying off the debt and we're on a higher rate than the credit meter - so, we've paid about £300 of which £225 is paying off debt that isn't ours. 

The engineer who came out left us with documentation which makes no mention of changing our meter or capping our gas - and, when we initially phoned, they denied doing it. They eventually admitted it but insisted we're liable for the debt - they sent us a letter threatening to get a default against us for the debt and send recovery agents. They're still charging us the standing charge for the credit meter that's no longer installed.

They have now accepted that they did change the meter and agreed to rectify it (next year, when they can get an appointment). They've insisted they did nothing wrong and that they were entitled to enter our property because they're insisting we never phoned them prior to them changing the meter (we have proof that we phoned them). They've offered a £50 "gesture of goodwill". Given that our current out-of-pocket costs are nearing £1000 now, we obviously don't be accepting that.

What is reasonable compensation to expect here? I can't find anything online about entering a property without a legal warrant except for police, which obviously isn't the case here.

When you moved into the property, did you take a meter reading for gas/electricity?

Did you notify the energy supplier IN WRITING of the meter readings the day you moved in or within a day or two?

You need to make sure everything is in WRITING telling them what they need to do, any compensation will be in the form of losses.

You should claim for:
*all money paid that was not your debt (they need to chase the estate of the deceased previous owner for that), 
* the difference in energy costs between a pre-paid meter and a standard fixed tariff that you would have had.
* any damage they caused
* time spent sorting this out (make sure you log all the time you spend)

I would also tell them to move the meter IMMEDIATELY if it is preventing the door opening and you getting with a pram. I'd give them 14 days to do this otherwise I would tell them that you will employ an electrician to remove/move it and bill them for it. That must be a nightmare if you can't get a pram out the door! Changing it next year is not acceptable. They need to do it within 14 days.

Their £50 compensation is rather pathetic and that should be IN ADDITION to all actual out of pocket expenses.