Small claims court with a joiner - what can I hope for?

DanDare999

Skag said:

macman said:

The short answer to your question is that you hope that you win your claim, and that he pays up, whether voluntarily, or following bailiff action. Either way, it's worth pursuing to the end, because of the scale of your losses. But nobody can tell you what your chances of success are.
If this company is taking on joinery projects worth £20k they probably have some assets, it doesn't sound like a one man and a dog operation.
Did you send an LBA before submitting your claim? I hope so.

That's what I'd guess. I mean this guy allegedly is trying to get more business, so he should have assets.

Yes, I've sent an LBA via email with all the facts, deadline, etc. He even replied to it promising he will pay by a specific date -he didn't.

Why? I'm not sure there's a direct link, everything could be on finance if he's building a business. Also easy to disappear if owned by a limited company. 

Skag

DanDare999 said:

Skag said:

macman said:

The short answer to your question is that you hope that you win your claim, and that he pays up, whether voluntarily, or following bailiff action. Either way, it's worth pursuing to the end, because of the scale of your losses. But nobody can tell you what your chances of success are.
If this company is taking on joinery projects worth £20k they probably have some assets, it doesn't sound like a one man and a dog operation.
Did you send an LBA before submitting your claim? I hope so.

That's what I'd guess. I mean this guy allegedly is trying to get more business, so he should have assets.

Yes, I've sent an LBA via email with all the facts, deadline, etc. He even replied to it promising he will pay by a specific date -he didn't.

Why? I'm not sure there's a direct link, everything could be on finance if he's building a business. Also easy to disappear if owned by a limited company. 

Got it. But if he chooses to carry on business with his company, he needs to eventually hand over the money, bailiff or not. Otherwise, it's bankruptcy.

user1977

Skag said:

Ectophile said:

Skag said:

user1977 said:

Skag said:

user1977 said:

Skag said:

user1977 said:

Skag said:

I sued his Ltd co, which I know holds items such as saws, vans etc. 

How do you know this?

He told me that he had bought saws and equipment, and also have seen his van.

None of which necessarily means that the company owns them.

Ok yes, we can't know for sure.

We're digressing a bit from the original topic though.

Not really - there's little point going to court unless you have a fair idea that the debtor actually has assets which you can get at. So from his perspective, he might consider it wisest to put all his liabilities in the company's name, and keep the main assets in his own name (or as mentioned above, the van may well be on finance so not owned by him at all).

So what would you recommend I do to check whether he has assets in his company ?

You can look up the company's accounts at Companies House https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-a-company

But I would be very surprised if the company had assets worth £10000.

Why would you be surprised?

For the reasons already explained above.

As asked before, what do the accounts say?

DanDare999

Skag said:

DanDare999 said:

Skag said:

macman said:

The short answer to your question is that you hope that you win your claim, and that he pays up, whether voluntarily, or following bailiff action. Either way, it's worth pursuing to the end, because of the scale of your losses. But nobody can tell you what your chances of success are.
If this company is taking on joinery projects worth £20k they probably have some assets, it doesn't sound like a one man and a dog operation.
Did you send an LBA before submitting your claim? I hope so.

That's what I'd guess. I mean this guy allegedly is trying to get more business, so he should have assets.

Yes, I've sent an LBA via email with all the facts, deadline, etc. He even replied to it promising he will pay by a specific date -he didn't.

Why? I'm not sure there's a direct link, everything could be on finance if he's building a business. Also easy to disappear if owned by a limited company. 

Got it. But if he chooses to carry on business with his company, he needs to eventually hand over the money, bailiff or not. Otherwise, it's bankruptcy.

No, he folds a limited company and transfers the assists to a new company. 

You had Joiner Ltd work for you and you sue them.  The new company is Joiner New Ltd everything is transferred to the new company. Joiner Ltd has folded and has no assets so where is your money coming from?

Skag

DanDare999 said:

Skag said:

DanDare999 said:

Skag said:

macman said:

The short answer to your question is that you hope that you win your claim, and that he pays up, whether voluntarily, or following bailiff action. Either way, it's worth pursuing to the end, because of the scale of your losses. But nobody can tell you what your chances of success are.
If this company is taking on joinery projects worth £20k they probably have some assets, it doesn't sound like a one man and a dog operation.
Did you send an LBA before submitting your claim? I hope so.

That's what I'd guess. I mean this guy allegedly is trying to get more business, so he should have assets.

Yes, I've sent an LBA via email with all the facts, deadline, etc. He even replied to it promising he will pay by a specific date -he didn't.

Why? I'm not sure there's a direct link, everything could be on finance if he's building a business. Also easy to disappear if owned by a limited company. 

Got it. But if he chooses to carry on business with his company, he needs to eventually hand over the money, bailiff or not. Otherwise, it's bankruptcy.

No, he folds a limited company and transfers the assists to a new company. 

You had Joiner Ltd work for you and you sue them.  The new company is Joiner New Ltd everything is transferred to the new company. Joiner Ltd has folded and has no assets so where is your money coming from?

So someone can do this ad infinitum, without any consequences?

Aylesbury_Duck

Skag said:

DanDare999 said:

Skag said:

DanDare999 said:

Skag said:

macman said:

The short answer to your question is that you hope that you win your claim, and that he pays up, whether voluntarily, or following bailiff action. Either way, it's worth pursuing to the end, because of the scale of your losses. But nobody can tell you what your chances of success are.
If this company is taking on joinery projects worth £20k they probably have some assets, it doesn't sound like a one man and a dog operation.
Did you send an LBA before submitting your claim? I hope so.

That's what I'd guess. I mean this guy allegedly is trying to get more business, so he should have assets.

Yes, I've sent an LBA via email with all the facts, deadline, etc. He even replied to it promising he will pay by a specific date -he didn't.

Why? I'm not sure there's a direct link, everything could be on finance if he's building a business. Also easy to disappear if owned by a limited company. 

Got it. But if he chooses to carry on business with his company, he needs to eventually hand over the money, bailiff or not. Otherwise, it's bankruptcy.

No, he folds a limited company and transfers the assists to a new company. 

You had Joiner Ltd work for you and you sue them.  The new company is Joiner New Ltd everything is transferred to the new company. Joiner Ltd has folded and has no assets so where is your money coming from?

So someone can do this ad infinitum, without any consequences?

Yes
.
.
.
.

Skag

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Skag said:

DanDare999 said:

Skag said:

DanDare999 said:

Skag said:

macman said:

The short answer to your question is that you hope that you win your claim, and that he pays up, whether voluntarily, or following bailiff action. Either way, it's worth pursuing to the end, because of the scale of your losses. But nobody can tell you what your chances of success are.
If this company is taking on joinery projects worth £20k they probably have some assets, it doesn't sound like a one man and a dog operation.
Did you send an LBA before submitting your claim? I hope so.

That's what I'd guess. I mean this guy allegedly is trying to get more business, so he should have assets.

Yes, I've sent an LBA via email with all the facts, deadline, etc. He even replied to it promising he will pay by a specific date -he didn't.

Why? I'm not sure there's a direct link, everything could be on finance if he's building a business. Also easy to disappear if owned by a limited company. 

Got it. But if he chooses to carry on business with his company, he needs to eventually hand over the money, bailiff or not. Otherwise, it's bankruptcy.

No, he folds a limited company and transfers the assists to a new company. 

You had Joiner Ltd work for you and you sue them.  The new company is Joiner New Ltd everything is transferred to the new company. Joiner Ltd has folded and has no assets so where is your money coming from?

So someone can do this ad infinitum, without any consequences?

Yes
.
.
.
.

How sad to know that the UK justice system doesn't work in this area...

lincroft1710

Skag said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Skag said:

DanDare999 said:

Skag said:

DanDare999 said:

Skag said:

macman said:

The short answer to your question is that you hope that you win your claim, and that he pays up, whether voluntarily, or following bailiff action. Either way, it's worth pursuing to the end, because of the scale of your losses. But nobody can tell you what your chances of success are.
If this company is taking on joinery projects worth £20k they probably have some assets, it doesn't sound like a one man and a dog operation.
Did you send an LBA before submitting your claim? I hope so.

That's what I'd guess. I mean this guy allegedly is trying to get more business, so he should have assets.

Yes, I've sent an LBA via email with all the facts, deadline, etc. He even replied to it promising he will pay by a specific date -he didn't.

Why? I'm not sure there's a direct link, everything could be on finance if he's building a business. Also easy to disappear if owned by a limited company. 

Got it. But if he chooses to carry on business with his company, he needs to eventually hand over the money, bailiff or not. Otherwise, it's bankruptcy.

No, he folds a limited company and transfers the assists to a new company. 

You had Joiner Ltd work for you and you sue them.  The new company is Joiner New Ltd everything is transferred to the new company. Joiner Ltd has folded and has no assets so where is your money coming from?

So someone can do this ad infinitum, without any consequences?

Yes
.
.
.
.

How sad to know that the UK justice system doesn't work in this area...

How sad to know that UK legislation allows limited companies to close and reopen under a different name 

Ectophile

Skag said:

Ectophile said:

Skag said:

user1977 said:

Skag said:

user1977 said:

Skag said:

user1977 said:

Skag said:

I sued his Ltd co, which I know holds items such as saws, vans etc. 

How do you know this?

He told me that he had bought saws and equipment, and also have seen his van.

None of which necessarily means that the company owns them.

Ok yes, we can't know for sure.

We're digressing a bit from the original topic though.

Not really - there's little point going to court unless you have a fair idea that the debtor actually has assets which you can get at. So from his perspective, he might consider it wisest to put all his liabilities in the company's name, and keep the main assets in his own name (or as mentioned above, the van may well be on finance so not owned by him at all).

So what would you recommend I do to check whether he has assets in his company ?

You can look up the company's accounts at Companies House https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-a-company

But I would be very surprised if the company had assets worth £10000.

Why would you be surprised?

Because any money would be much better in his bank account than the company's.  The van will be leased or on finance.  And nothing else would have second-hand values worth much.

Skag

Ectophile said:

Skag said:

Ectophile said:

Skag said:

user1977 said:

Skag said:

user1977 said:

Skag said:

user1977 said:

Skag said:

I sued his Ltd co, which I know holds items such as saws, vans etc. 

How do you know this?

He told me that he had bought saws and equipment, and also have seen his van.

None of which necessarily means that the company owns them.

Ok yes, we can't know for sure.

We're digressing a bit from the original topic though.

Not really - there's little point going to court unless you have a fair idea that the debtor actually has assets which you can get at. So from his perspective, he might consider it wisest to put all his liabilities in the company's name, and keep the main assets in his own name (or as mentioned above, the van may well be on finance so not owned by him at all).

So what would you recommend I do to check whether he has assets in his company ?

You can look up the company's accounts at Companies House https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-a-company

But I would be very surprised if the company had assets worth £10000.

Why would you be surprised?

Because any money would be much better in his bank account than the company's.  The van will be leased or on finance.  And nothing else would have second-hand values worth much.

But you can't just transfer company's money to your account, unless it's salary or dividend payout, or a loan, in which case you need to pay it back to the co (it's essentially receivables).