LL refusing Gas Safe to test Boiler

Utterlyconfused81

Hello,

So we are currently renting a property, been in it for 5 months and have had all manner of issues, most of which are significant.

There is currently major repair work taken place re-fitting our bathroom due to a water leak allowed to continue by the LL for over 4 months and a raft of other issues that came to light due to poor workmanship by the original contractor.

Not long ago had a major Gas Leak from the pipe feeding the hob which the Emergency engineer advised could have easily resulted in loss of life.

As such we raised concerns to the LL regarding who undertook the installation of the cookers hob, boiler etc. They refused to answer simply referring the the GS cert, which we believe to be worth about as much as the paper it is printed on.

Given my concerns Gas Safe were in agreement that this required inspecting and testing. They contacted the LL's representative who replied, denying permission to test the boiler.

As such Gas Safe can attend but only undertake a visual inspection.

I fail to see on what grounds the LL / rep would deny permission for the regulatory body with Gas in the UK to send one of their Engineers and test for free.

I can only assume this is to be deliberately difficult and make the tenancy more intolerable than it already is and or they are concerned what may be discovered being I don't believe it was installed by someone who is registered Gas Safe.

We have been repeatedly informed we do not have permission to hire anyone independently to re-test the boiler.

All we are looking for is to feel safe in the property, something that we have not for months will now continue not to for the remainder of the tenancy. It was my understanding that LL's have a duty of care, it certainly doesn't feel like that is the case in this instance.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Section62

Utterlyconfused81 said:

...
As such we raised concerns to the LL regarding who undertook the installation of the cookers hob, boiler etc. They refused to answer simply referring the the GS cert, which we believe to be worth about as much as the paper it is printed on.

...

I fail to see on what grounds the LL / rep would deny permission for the regulatory body with Gas in the UK to send one of their Engineers and test for free.

Gas Safe operate the register of gas 'engineers', they aren't a regulatory body in the broader sense.

Have you asked Gas Safe about the validity of the certificate?  If it has been fraudulently produced then there could be an offence involved.

I would probably contact the council's housing department and explain your concerns, and seek their advice.  If a landlord is letting property with (allegedly) faulty gas installations then this is something they could use their powers to investigate.

diystarter7

OP

The GS/Gas Safe certificate carries a reference number of the engineer that you can independently check online.

I'm assuming you have checked hence your comments, then in that case consult the coucil housing they can advise.

Utterlyconfused81

Council sadly are already involved as I had to get them to inspect the sheer number of issues due to the length of time no action was taken.  They have since issued a list of issues to be resolved and the timelines for these.

They advised regarding the Gas and Electric certs that as both are signed by allegedly competent people they can question neither, even though our Electrical conditioning report was done "allegedly" by someone who is based 3 hours away.  So we are suppose to believe someone did a minimum 6 hour round trip to undertake this!

diystarter7

Are you not able to invite the "free gas check"? If there is a smell of gas then its an emergency is it not!

Re doing a new bathroom, please do not forget that some builders do let down people and we've had it in our own home and rentals and MSE forums are full of builders dragging working, not turning up etc. Yes, its not your fault but just food for thought.

As I said, speak with the council housig and they are very helpful. Good luck

theartfullodger

In your shoes with your concerns I'd simply get a gas safety certificate done, at your own expense, without asking permission from stupid landlord.  Then see what it says!

Artful  (landlord since 2000)

Utterlyconfused81

theartfullodger said:

In your shoes with your concerns I'd simply get a gas safety certificate done, at your own expense, without asking permission from stupid landlord.  Then see what it says!

Artful  (landlord since 2000)

That's pretty much the stage we are getting to, however the LL's rep has stated, in more than one email, that we are not authorised under any circumstances to have anyone do any work at the property and that any ignoring of this instruction will also not see them liable for costs.

My concern is that if we do hire someone (we have a builder friend who will be able to recommend a reputable and qualified Engineer) and a fault is found, that the LL / Rep will then claim this is as a result of the person we hired and try and pass liability on to us.

This has already been the case with regards another issue at the property where the LL authorised and transferred my partner the money to pay for work to be done only to then claim that our contractor had made the problem worse, which was simply not the case.  Nor were they our contractor as far as we are concerned.  

Honestly, if I provided a full list of issues with this place along with how much we paid upfront and the difficulty we've had in getting anything done, you'd think I was making it up before realising it's so crazy it could only be true. 

silvercar

If you arranged a gas safety certificate at your expense from a registered gas safe engineer, that wouldn’t in itself breach the restriction that you can’t get any work done on the property. Probably cost you £60. Either it will give you peace of mind or it will flag up urgent work that your landlord will have to sort.

LegallyLandlord

I agree - get the gas safety certificate done but no repairs. 

I bought a buy to let earlier this year and it had a valid gas safety certificate. I noticed the boiler hadn’t been serviced on the certificate, and arranged for it to be serviced after completion. 

The engineer took the cover off and the bottom was rusty as the condenser had been leaking. He thought it had never been serviced. I replaced it before letting it. 

Unfortunately there are a few landlords who don’t look after their renters’ safety and cut corners. I blame poor enforcement of regulations, as you see here. 

macman

Utterlyconfused81 said:

theartfullodger said:

In your shoes with your concerns I'd simply get a gas safety certificate done, at your own expense, without asking permission from stupid landlord.  Then see what it says!

Artful  (landlord since 2000)

That's pretty much the stage we are getting to, however the LL's rep has stated, in more than one email, that we are not authorised under any circumstances to have anyone do any work at the property and that any ignoring of this instruction will also not see them liable for costs.

My concern is that if we do hire someone (we have a builder friend who will be able to recommend a reputable and qualified Engineer) and a fault is found, that the LL / Rep will then claim this is as a result of the person we hired and try and pass liability on to us.

This has already been the case with regards another issue at the property where the LL authorised and transferred my partner the money to pay for work to be done only to then claim that our contractor had made the problem worse, which was simply not the case.  Nor were they our contractor as far as we are concerned.  

Honestly, if I provided a full list of issues with this place along with how much we paid upfront and the difficulty we've had in getting anything done, you'd think I was making it up before realising it's so crazy it could only be true. 

It's not 'work', it's an inspection. You can commission any report you like without the LL's permission. The only 'work' involved is undoing a couple of screws to remove the fboiler ront cover. The LL's agent is clueless and simply repeating nonsense.

Utterlyconfused81

macman said:

It's not 'work', it's an inspection. You can commission any report you like without the LL's permission. The only 'work' involved is undoing a couple of screws to remove the fboiler ront cover. The LL's agent is clueless and simply repeating nonsense.

See that's where I am a little unclear.  As Gas Safe have arranged an Engineer to come next week, however, their words, can only do a visual inspection.  Where as I believe had the LL / her rep given consent there is testing of the system that could have been done.  I would assume this possible would have a better chance at capturing any potential faults. 

I am sure from certs in properties I have been in previously when a new one has been required the Engineer has run the boiler and tested for certain things.  Sorry, Gas boilers are one area where I have very little understanding of how things work.