Why does TSB "new" system from 2018 look same as the old one? 13 November 2022 at 1:50PM in Budgeting & bank accounts 11 replies 711 views

Alex9384

I've been wondering for a while... When TSB did their disastrous migration in 2018 from Lloyds to their "new" systems, was it just a copy-paste of the old dinosaur software on their own servers? Why they didn't take the opportunity to do something like Starling or Monzo (which were already around for at least 4 years at that time)?
Why would you build a brand new banking that looks like an old dull boring legacy banking? Not showing transaction times, not showing locations, no retailer logos (only in the app). Lloyds (and Halifax) have improved their systems a lot since then, probably more than any other high street bank. So what did TSB actually do in 2018?

blue.peter

See this article from June 2018. (I'm sure that the same information can be found elsewhere, too.)

 ...transferring the records and accounts of its 5.2 million customers from a system operated by its former owner, Lloyds Banking Group, to one designed by its current owner, the Spanish bank Sabadell.

So, no, it wasn't "just a copy-paste of the old dinosaur software on their own servers".  AIUI (but ICBW), they transferred the data onto a pre-existing Sabadell system that really wasn't up to coping with the sheer volume of accounts that TSB had. I'm inclined to agree that designing a new system from scratch might have been a better idea, but hindsight is a wonderful thing. My guess is that someone important decided that they already had a system, and that it'd be cheaper to use that than to build new. If so, they might have come to regret that decision.

The really interesting thing for me is that TSB apparently turned down an offer of help from Lloyds in the early stages of the meltdown. That might not have been the wisest of decisions, either.

username

Alex9384 said:

I've been wondering for a while... When TSB did their disastrous migration in 2018 from Lloyds to their "new" systems, was it just a copy-paste of the old dinosaur software on their own servers? Why they didn't take the opportunity to do something like Starling or Monzo (which were already around for at least 4 years at that time)?
Why would you build a brand new banking that looks like an old dull boring legacy banking? Not showing transaction times, not showing locations, no retailer logos (only in the app). Lloyds (and Halifax) have improved their systems a lot since then, probably more than any other high street bank. So what did TSB actually do in 2018?

Quite simply additional features cost money and time to code and likely the brief would have been to make it as visually similar to what they have currently (to make it as seamless to the existing userbase) however the bulk of the work would have been directed at the backend systems (i.e. migrating to Proteo4UK) rather than the aesthetic aspects.

Given the large licensing fee they had to pay to LBG to continue using the existing platform and the plan of migration was running behind schedule such aesthetics would have been the least of their worries and so lower in the priority listing.

To know I bought a coffee at 0723 in Pret with a pretty logo doesn't do anything for me - and if I really wanted to find when I'd done it I would dig through to find the receipt in my wallet. Location, maybe, but a lot of banks will show the town anyway on the statement.

The Monzo/Starling comparison is often brought up, but what value does it bring to the client to know they made a purchase at  0723 in Pret in Kings Cross? Are the target market for Monzo and Starling that forgetful about where they have used their card?!

WillPS

Alex9384 said:

I've been wondering for a while... When TSB did their disastrous migration in 2018 from Lloyds to their "new" systems, was it just a copy-paste of the old dinosaur software on their own servers? Why they didn't take the opportunity to do something like Starling or Monzo (which were already around for at least 4 years at that time)?
Why would you build a brand new banking that looks like an old dull boring legacy banking? Not showing transaction times, not showing locations, no retailer logos (only in the app). Lloyds (and Halifax) have improved their systems a lot since then, probably more than any other high street bank. So what did TSB actually do in 2018?

One major element of project management is defining and enforcing scope.

The aim was for the change to be entirely behind the scenes so normal users wouldn't notice any change, and there'd be no complaints from existing complaints.

Pretty comical when you consider the impact of what eventually transpired from the customer's perspective.

Alex9384

username said:

To know I bought a coffee at 0723 in Pret with a pretty logo doesn't do anything for me - and if I really wanted to find when I'd done it I would dig through to find the receipt in my wallet. Location, maybe, but a lot of banks will show the town anyway on the statement.

The Monzo/Starling comparison is often brought up, but what value does it bring to the client to know they made a purchase at  0723 in Pret in Kings Cross? Are the target market for Monzo and Starling that forgetful about where they have used their card?!

Yes, that's literally the only reason why I keep Monzo and Starling. What else? The absence of online banking, no branches, and limited range of products?

Do you only do one card transaction per month? Or do you carry a bunch of receipts in your wallet, instead of bank notes?
Isn't it much easier to simply have it all in the app appearing automatically?

You've probably never been in a situation where you needed to know what time exactly it was when you were at certain place, or when you met someone, etc. If it was 2 weeks or 2 months ago, I really doubt you can recall it. Couple weeks ago I needed to find out something from August 2020. A quick scroll through the Starling app and I saw exactly where did I do which transaction, with exact date, time, location.
Some dinosaur banks even give you wrong date! They show you when transaction was cleared rather than when the purchase was made, which can be 3 or even 4 days difference. Better dinosaur banks at least show you the purchase date when you click on the transaction and expand it, but others like Co-op don't let you expand anything. The info is simply not there for you. Even payment references are incomplete, or they don't exist at all (Nationwide). If you have 10 current accounts and send money from them to Nationwide, you can't later tell which account did it come from. All you can see is "Bank credit" and your name.

Colourful logos make it easier to navigate through lots of transactions, or simply are more visually appealing.

For some reason there are always people opposing such innovations just because they can't imagine how helpful they can be.

phillw

Alex9384 said:
Do you only do one card transaction per month? Or do you carry a bunch of receipts in your wallet, instead of bank notes?

Isn't it much easier to simply have it all in the app appearing automatically?

You've probably never been in a situation where you needed to know what time exactly it was when you were at certain place, or when you met someone, etc. If it was 2 weeks or 2 months ago, I really doubt you can recall it. Couple weeks ago I needed to find out something from August 2020. A quick scroll through the Starling app and I saw exactly where did I do which transaction, with exact date, time, location.
Some dinosaur banks even give you wrong date! They show you when transaction was cleared rather than when the purchase was made, which can be 3 or even 4 days difference. Better dinosaur banks at least show you the purchase date when you click on the transaction and expand it, but others like Co-op don't let you expand anything. The info is simply not there for you. Even payment references are incomplete, or they don't exist at all (Nationwide). If you have 10 current accounts and send money from them to Nationwide, you can't later tell which account did it come 

One food shop a week and fuel once a month. Everything else is very sparse. All on 0% purchase credit cards.
If I needed to know when I spoke to someone then I would diaries it rather than try to associate it with a particular coffee purchase 

This is money saving expert after all
I use a Santander esaver as my hub, which does show references. Not that I would bother reconciling it, it's only me moving money around and I can login and see it.

It would be nice to have all the bells and whistles but I don't see it being a big enough money maker to justify the investment. The challenger banks had a pot of angel investor cash to try to gain market share rapidly and now the people who want it can have it. Why would they want to go to tsb?

Rob5342

I find the Monzo features incredibly useful - it makes it very easy to check what the transactions were when I look back. It's the cumulative effect of all the features that makes it so much better. Showing the location on a map instead of just listing the town like the old fashioned banks do might not be much of an improvement in itself, but if you have lots of features like that all wrapped up in a co-ordinated interface it makes the overall experience far better.

Alex9384

phillw said:

One food shop a week and fuel once a month. Everything else is very sparse. All on 0% purchase credit cards.
If I needed to know when I spoke to someone then I would diaries it rather than try to associate it with a particular coffee purchase 

This is money saving expert after all
I use a Santander esaver as my hub, which does show references. Not that I would bother reconciling it, it's only me moving money around and I can login and see it.

It would be nice to have all the bells and whistles but I don't see it being a big enough money maker to justify the investment. The challenger banks had a pot of angel investor cash to try to gain market share rapidly and now the people who want it can have it. Why would they want to go to tsb?

Let's put it this way:

Imagine you buy a cup of coffee today, 15th November. And your bank would give you two options:

Option 1:  I want this transaction showing as purchase on 15th November (the actual date of the transaction) with exact time and location.

Option 2:  I want all this information hidden from me and just want to see an incorrect date that doesn't match the date of the purchase.

Is there any reason why you would choose the option 2 ?
What's the benefit to you in having to write it down manually into your diary, rather than having it automatically appearing in the app, simply by making that purchase?

OK, I understand why banks don't want to invest in it. But why would customers say they are fine with incorrect info? I really can't wrap my head around this.

blue.peter

Alex9384 said:

Let's put it this way:

Imagine you buy a cup of coffee today, 15th November. And your bank would give you two options:

Option 1:  I want this transaction showing as purchase on 15th November (the actual date of the transaction) with exact time and location.

Option 2:  I want all this information hidden from me and just want to see an incorrect date that doesn't match the date of the purchase.

Is there any reason why you would choose the option 2 ?

Finding option 2 to be sufficient isn't the same as choosing it. Either would be acceptable; neither is, for me, a basis for choosing one over the other. Different considerations matter more to me. Some (many?) of us just don't need the additional/more accurate information that you want. If it's there, that's fine, but I certainly see no need to go out of my way to get it. Not finding it useful to me is not the same thing as opposing it. I'm neutral on the point. As it happens, I currently have a TSB credit card, and find their presentation of transactions good enough for my purposes. I wouldn't be at all opposed to them changing things to suit your preference, but nor would I push them to do it. (On the other hand, I can think of other improvements that they could make to their Internet Banking that I believe would be more beneficial.)

I'm one of those people who collects paper vouchers in my wallet. When I get home, I remove them and add the relevant information to AceMoney. All I then do is check the payees and amounts recorded by the bank against my own records. As long as the transactions are in something approximating the same order as my record and the amounts tally, that's good enough for me. The paper vouchers then sit in a pile beside my monitor, and are there for me to check if I ever need them (rare). I keep them for a couple of months before shredding them.

Alex9384

blue.peter said:

Finding option 2 to be sufficient isn't the same as choosing it. Either would be acceptable; neither is, for me, a basis for choosing one over the other. Different considerations matter more to me. Some (many?) of us just don't need the additional/more accurate information that you want. If it's there, that's fine, but I certainly see no need to go out of my way to get it. Not finding it useful to me is not the same thing as opposing it. I'm neutral on the point. As it happens, I currently have a TSB credit card, and find their presentation of transactions good enough for my purposes. I wouldn't be at all opposed to them changing things to suit your preference, but nor would I push them to do it. (On the other hand, I can think of other improvements that they could make to their Internet Banking that I believe would be more beneficial.)

I'm one of those people who collects paper vouchers in my wallet. When I get home, I remove them and add the relevant information to AceMoney. All I then do is check the payees and amounts recorded by the bank against my own records. As long as the transactions are in something approximating the same order as my record and the amounts tally, that's good enough for me. The paper vouchers then sit in a pile beside my monitor, and are there for me to check if I ever need them (rare). I keep them for a couple of months before shredding them.

Peter, that's still the same thing - having to input something somewhere manually, when you could have the bank app doing that for you automatically, simply by using their card as you would use it anyway, just without the need to do any additional job.

blue.peter

Alex9384 said:

Peter, that's still the same thing - having to input something somewhere manually, when you could have the bank app doing that for you automatically, simply by using their card as you would use it anyway, just without the need to do any additional job.

No, it's not the same thing.

1. My method is independent of the bank. It gives me something to check against.
2. Most importantly for me, AceMoney is predictive. It makes planning ahead simple. I can see what's coming up as well as what's already passed.This means, inter alia, that I can move "spare" money into savings accounts, where it'll earn a little interest, leaving only a bare minimum in my current account for ad hoc spending. And I can do this at an early stage.
   
3. And I have a consolidated view of all my accounts - current, credit cards and savings - in one place. I'd be able to record loans and mortgages there, too, if I had either.
4. I can generate reports, covering multiple accounts, of my spending broken down by category.
   
5. I can easily and quickly search multiple accounts if I want to look up a transaction from years ago.
   

Your method works for you. That's great. Mine works for me. It (or something like it, since it started as pen and paper) has worked for me for 40+ years. I have no need (or wish) to change.

Open Banking has the potential to bring your approach and mine together, but it's nowhere near to doing so yet.