new style employment and support allowance

baffledandconfused

Hi everyone, 

I thought I'd already made a post asking this but it doesn't seem to have been made!

I was already on uc and had been awarded LCWRA when I applied for new style esa. I knew it wouldn't be any more money as it would all be taken off my universal credit but I applied as I believe the national insurance credits are a bit different?

I'd read in the rules for new style esa that if you've already had a wca for uc, you don't need another and LCWRA would put you straight in the support group, but esa are asking me to submit sick notes and talking about a 'potential wca' in the future. Is this right?

They are giving me 77 a week which i think is the assessment rate everyone gets for the first 12 weeks? Is this right?

Thank you!

Rubyroobs

Have you advised them that you ahve already been awarded LCWRA ? It sounds like a standard letter. You shouldn't need to be assessed again unless you are due a re-assessment anyway?

Spoonie_Turtle

You're right that you should be automatically in the Support Group.  Was your LCWRA decision more than 12 weeks ago?  You might have to phone them to get your status transferred across.

I claimed UC first then ESA later, months after my WCA decision, and despite telling them at the start I'd already had a decision, then again when I got the 'we need fit notes' letter, they didn't actually put me in the right group until I chased them later (when I got the 'your ESA will end in 6 months' letter *facepalm*)

I can't remember whether the 12 weeks waiting applies to ESA even if you already have LCWRA.  But they definitely shouldn't be asking you for fit notes (apart from the first standard letter, but I'd still phone them if I were you).

calcotti

Spoonie_Turtle said:

You're right that you should be automatically in the Support Group.  ..
I can't remember whether the 12 weeks waiting applies to ESA even if you already have LCWRA. 

Should be in the Support Group without further assessment but will still, to the best of my knowledge, only be paid the Assessment rate initially. Obviously it make no difference to total income if claiming UC as well - provided UC calculate the deduction correctly which they may not.

baffledandconfused

Thanks everyone! They know I'm on UC LCWRA as it's the same person at the job centre that I saw for my UC initially that I've  speaking to about the ESA, at least since I did the online form anyway.  

I mentioned it to him when he asked for the sick notes and said that I thought they wouldn't need them because I'd already had an assessment on UC, he was pretty confused and said ESA was new to him but he'd check with a colleague. While he was checking he sent me a letter talking about sanction amounts and work requirements when over the phone he'd told me I had no work requirements and hadn't even mentioned sanctions. I queried this and he came back saying I had no work requirements, no sanctions applied and that he wouldn't need to see me again (I hadn't been seeing him anyway, he'd been doing phone appointments because of my health) but that I would need to submit sick notes.  

It sounds like I'm in the same situation as you were Turtle. I guess it's the 12 week thing here that is confusing matters.  For some reason I thought that if the esa wca put you in the support group they backdated that amount after the assessment? But now, what I'm reading seems to say this only happens from week 14 of the esa claim.  As I'm not yet on week 14, does that mean I won't get the support rate until week 14? Even if they knew from week 0 I was in the support group? Do I need to reach week 14 for them to 'officially' put me in the support group and until then I'll be in the assessment group, until week 14, at which point,  rather than commencing the wca they'll just put me straight in to the support group? 

I'm usually good with stuff like this but trying to understand these rules is like wading through mud! 

I've been in LCWRA for months now however it was a paperbased decision, does that affect things? I was under the impression it was still a wca even if they hadn't done the physical meeting bit but Is that right?

Spoonie_Turtle

Your LCWRA decision is the outcome of a WCA, regardless of whether the assessment appointment was paper-based or in-person/phone/video/whatever.  (Incidentally, congratulations on a paper-based decision, that's unusual!)

You should be in the Support Group because you have LCWRA.  The 13 weeks is only applicable to the rate of payment, not which group you're actually in.

If you're being asked for fit notes or given any commitments, you should phone up ESA and insist they put your LCWRA status from UC onto the ESA system.

baffledandconfused

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Your LCWRA decision is the outcome of a WCA, regardless of whether the assessment appointment was paper-based or in-person/phone/video/whatever.  (Incidentally, congratulations on a paper-based decision, that's unusual!)

You should be in the Support Group because you have LCWRA.  The 13 weeks is only applicable to the rate of payment, not which group you're actually in.

If you're being asked for fit notes or given any commitments, you should phone up ESA and insist they put your LCWRA status from UC onto the ESA system.

Thank you for clearing things up! 

Will definitely give them a calI actually had a look back at your past posts as it seemed you had a pretty similar situation in the past and I saw that even though they knew from the start it wasn't till you called that they logged it so yeah,  will definitely be calling 🤦🏻‍♀️

I actually had the same thing happen with my pip as you by the looks of things, the whole mainstream school thing had me outstanded. I attended school during the early 2000s so segregating students was very much not the done thing and seen as old fashioned really. I was very much not the only disabled student at my school! If your parents wanted you to be in mainstream school then that's what would be happening, even if you weren't in mainstream classes. I'm not saying things were perfect, sometimes I have wondered if the push towards one school for all was sometimes to our detriment in some ways.  But it was a completely baffling argument to me that an adults disability was less severe because as a child they attended a mainstream school??? When growing up, I'd always seen parents and their children pushing to be in mainstream school as it was widely believed at the time that a specialist school wouldn't be doing much teaching at all and certainly wouldn't be putting you forward for any qualifications (again not saying this was right,  just that the vast majority of people my age with disabilities as children that I've come across in life, did go to mainstream school,  let alone those with disabilities acquired as adults! ) The assumption that if you have a disability that affects your daily living you won't be in mainstream school seemed so so old fashioned to me. Like thinking back to the days of institutions. I too, had my pip claim completely changed at MR and so didn't take it to tribunal. I'd been led to think that a sucessful MR was really rare so this surprised me. 

I was really shocked by the paper based decision as well. But in retrospect I've realised that after the nightmare experience with my first pip report (luckily over the phone but so inaccurate. it was what I had been prepared for but still hit be hard tbh) that I probably overloaded them with evidence when I later applied for the uc wca lol. Plus with the humongous backlog, it's the logical thing for them to be doing paperbased assessments where they can right,  not that logic actually seems to come in to any of this!

I was still massively lucky to get an assessor who actually bothered to read it though- pip definitely made me realise that doesn't always happen. As a whole I've been lucky that everyone but my pip assesor, really did seem to want to do the right thing by me, they just don't always seem to know how. On the whole, they seem like good people who just don't have the training or resources to do their jobs well.  It's my understanding that the wca contract was re-awarded after being taken off yet another controversial assessment company but that pip remains with the first contractors despite many exposes so I've  wondered if the current wca's are a little more cautious than the current pip because of that???

There's definitely terrible assessors with both and it's luck of the draw but my experience of pip, where they'd just completely ignored current medical consensus, the complete inaccuracies despite the call being recorded? Just a obvious lack of knowledge around basic parts of modern life as a disabled person, to the extent that soaps and reality TV had her beat. It was like she was living in a different world. It had me shocked even having read so many worse accounts beforehand. It was like there was no real expectation of her having any kind of competence? The dwp people all apologised throughout, even if they were a bit rubbish at their jobs lol but the assessment company wouldn't even acknowledge that they'd done anything wrong? Despite it being very clear to everyone else involved that they had. 

I might have it completely wrong but my experience has certainly led me to the idea that while the dwp and the wca people are dangerously incompetent, there are at least a few people at each working to make things at least legal and to avoid the next expose. The pip assessment company just seemed like not only were they incompetent, no-one there actually thought there was any problem with that? The paper based decision was so hugely unexpected that I was more than shocked at first but to be honest, looking back on it, it really was the bare minimum they should have done when faced with 20+ Dr's reports all answering the questions they wanted answered. I know I was lucky but at the same time I feel like I'm doing us all a disservice by calling it luck when actually, we all should be getting that! At the minimum! I know a lot of disabled people, all with varying degrees of ability when it comes to challenging the dwp or UC or ESA or whoever is treating them badly at that particular time and the thing that really breaks my heart each time is that I know they've only bothered to get things right for me as much as they have as I know that I shouldn't be discriminated against and will challenge them. A member of my family needs 24hr care, just to keep them safe,  spends their days colouring and yet the job centre had them on monthly meetings and hadn't even put them forward for a wca! It's beyond belief. There's no way she could have filled in a job application let alone got a job and attended it,  but they still had her carers dragging her to job centre appointments once a month to discuss her 'job search'. It almost makes me feel guilty for calling any mistakes to attention when I know that I'm still being treated better than so many people. 

Now I know that my wca may not be listed on the esa system, I'll definitely make sure I call them. Unfortunately all we can really do as individuals is to keep holding them to account I guess. 

huckster

Easiest way to resolve is for Job Centre to send ESA a copy of the LCRWA decision from the UC claim. And to ask ESA to confirm to the claimant from what week the LCWRA will be paid from.

Contact the Job Centre and they should be able to resolve this.