Storage/panel heaters but why aren't people installing heat pump Aircon units?

matelodave

EPC's do not recognise the fact that heatpumps are more efficient in energy consumption but consider them as electrical heating and because the EPC is skewed towards cost of energy rather than efficiency then they dont improve your energy rating. In fact, they can downgrade it if you change from gas to a heatpump because gas is the cheaper fuel.

For instance my EPC indicates that I need 15,000kwh to provide heat and hot water and obviously thats what a gas boiler would consume but my heatpump only consumes 5,000kwh of electricity, however as the EPC is based on me consuming the 15,000kwh requirement and as leccy is 3-4 times the cost of gas then that is what the EPC rating is based on - it still considers my hot water heating as "poor" even though its produced by the heatpump.

I did manage to improve my EPC from G to D but that was due to getting rid of storage heating and putting loads of insulation in.

Energy saving measures such as insulation and low energy lightbulbs or even solar panels or wind turbines count towards the EPC because they count towards reducing your consumption but the powers that be haven't twigged that heatpumps do as well

have a shufti at this - https://www.yorkshireenergysystems.co.uk/epcandheatpumps/ and this which was published this year - https://www.landlordtoday.co.uk/breaking-news/2022/2/epcs-may-change-after-heat-pump-glitch-discovered

Its also worth pointing out that A-A heatpumps dont improve your EPC much because they can't heat your hot water, you have to use an immersion heater, which drags the rating down

Mstty

matelodave said:

EPC's do not recognise the fact that heatpumps are more efficient in energy consumption but consider them as electrical heating and because the EPC is skewed towards cost of energy rather than efficiency then they dont improve your energy rating. In fact, they can downgrade it if you change from gas to a heatpump because gas is the cheaper fuel.

For instance my EPC indicates that I need 15,000kwh to provide heat and hot water and obviously thats what a gas boiler would consume but my heatpump only consumes 5,000kwh of electricity, however as the EPC is based on me consuming the 15,000kwh requirement and as leccy is 3-4 times the cost of gas then that is what the EPC rating is based on - it still considers my hot water heating as "poor" even though its produced by the heatpump.

I did manage to improve my EPC from G to D but that was due to getting rid of storage heating and putting loads of insulation in.

Energy saving measures such as insulation and low energy lightbulbs or even solar panels or wind turbines count towards the EPC because they count towards reducing your consumption but the powers that be haven't twigged that heatpumps do as well

have a shufti at this - https://www.yorkshireenergysystems.co.uk/epcandheatpumps/ and this which was published this year - https://www.landlordtoday.co.uk/breaking-news/2022/2/epcs-may-change-after-heat-pump-glitch-discovered

Its also worth pointing out that A-A heatpumps dont improve your EPC much because they can't heat your hot water, you have to use an immersion heater.

We have a mixture of band D in the main flats and houses for rent.

We are looking at what's next to bring them up to a C. I am disappointed that this type of heating is not given the credit it deserves but did know this was still the case sadly.

I will have a read thanks for the links as we are also considering a mass solar and battery install on the not so insignificant roof on the old 1880's hospital that is currently split into 8 flats. Not a fully formed plan yet but this will not only help our tenants but propel the flats into a new efficiency bracket and potentially a more popular option.

wittynamegoeshere

matelodave said:

Its also worth pointing out that A-A heatpumps dont improve your EPC much because they can't heat your hot water, you have to use an immersion heater, which drags the rating down

We have no mains gas so heat pumps are the only sensible option.  For a mixture of reasons, including a concrete floor and no existing central heating plumbing, we're going for a big multi-split air-to-air system for the main building and a second smaller one in the annexe.

We're having two on-demand instantaneous electric water heaters.  No cylinder or immersion heater at all, it can be done.

I've no idea what an EPC would make of this, probably not much, but we're not selling so I won't let that tail wag this dog!

However, this necessitates upgrading the existing 100A power supply to a 3-phase 240A one, at a cost of lots of thousands.  But all in all it (just) makes sense.

The swinging factor is that we can chill the entire building the next time there's a heatwave.  I know this isn't in the eco bible, but it is reality!

mmmmikey

Installing one of these now exactly as per the link in the OP. All fairly straightforward if you have the right tools. The biggest challenge is driling two 180mm diameter holes for the air ducts for which you need to hire or buy an appropriate diamond core bit. Will post again after I've tried it out properly

badmemory

Expensive to instal, too noisy & no room.

mmmmikey

badmemory said:

Expensive to instal, too noisy & no room.

Cost me £60 for the diamond core bit, could have hired it for £28 but decided it would be a useful thing to have as I need to install a ventilation duct elsewhere. No other installation costs and a fairly straightforward DIY job.

About the same amount of noise as a fan heater (its running now) whether this is an issue depends where you're going to use it.

About the same depth as the NSH it replaced but wider.

Will plug it in via a Tapo 110 to get an idea of how much it costs to run.

Horses for courses I guess

ispookie666

I have oil CH and have installed 3 A2A SHP , mainly as a means to reduce reliance on oil for heating with the added benefit of cooling.  I have gone through the whole shebang of applying for Planning permission (twice) and noise assessment (mainly for the larger unit).  The outdoor units are not noisy, but they all start off as very quiet and can get noisy as time goes.  
Very efficient at heating and cooling, far cheaper than burning oil.  Yes, there is significant cost outlay and you definitely need PP for any ASHP which can do cooling.  

mmmmikey

To balance this a bit I should probably say that I doubt I'd ever pay for the unit through cost savings. I bought it mainly for airconditioning. The low cost heating is a bonus - it will probably only be on as a heater for 15 minutes each morning to take the chill off the bedroom as I get up. Have just programmed the timer (I think!) after faffing about for ages with WiFi settings grrrrr!

mmmmikey

The heater came on this morning shortly before the alarm went off. Was vaguely aware of the noise in my waking up state before the alarm went off. Probably wouldn't be suitable for you in a bedroom for overnight use if you're a light sleeper. 15 minutes was enough time to heat the bedroom to 21C and keep it there whilst I had a cup of tea in bed, using 0.208kWh of energy at a total cost of about 1.5p. So far so good.

Oh, and my cat enjoys sitting watching the little flap that directs the heat move up and down

chris_n

mmmmikey said:

The heater came on this morning shortly before the alarm went off. Was vaguely aware of the noise in my waking up state before the alarm went off. Probably wouldn't be suitable for you in a bedroom for overnight use if you're a light sleeper. 15 minutes was enough time to heat the bedroom to 21C and keep it there whilst I had a cup of tea in bed, using 0.208kWh of energy at a total cost of about 1.5p. So far so good.

Oh, and my cat enjoys sitting watching the little flap that directs the heat move up and down

So instantaneous power is about 800w?