House without planning consent and completion certificate

tristanjourney

We are in the process of buying a house. Local searches showed that the house had two planning consents over 30 years ago:

• 1987: single storey pitched roof front lounge extension

• 1992: single sorry rear extension

The house actually also has done a garage conversion and it is now used as an additional lounge room, but it isn’t showed in searches. No one seems know when the garage conversion was done.

The house doesn’t have any rear extension. We don’t know if the previous vendor ever did that after the planning consent or did it then demolished it afterwards.

For the front extension and garage conversion, there was no building regulation completion certificates. The vendor’s explanation is that they purchased the property in 2007 as a probate sale. The precious vendor had passed away and their purchased from charities. There was no paperwork available from the charity organisations relating to the extension and conversion.

Our solicitor suggested to use indemnity insurance policy for the front extension and garage conversion and move forward. We asked our solicitor if a retrospective building approval (regularisation certificate) can be done by the vendor. Our solicitor said that vendor’s solicitor will likely advise against that idea given the it may require alternation etc and will also cause months delays.

Our surveyor (RICS level 3 survey) identified that the dampness reading within the wall of garage conversion is higher than usual but t there is no physical dampness. The survey report also didn’t mention any sign of any rear extension. Our surveyor suggested us to obtain all building regulation planning consent and completion certificates for all works.

I think we have a few solutions:

1. Follow our solicitor’s suggestion to take out an indemnity policy and proceed.

2. Insist the vendor to apply for a retrospective approval (regularisation certificate) for the front extension and garage conversion. Wait until the vendor get the regularisation certificate.

3. If vendor refuse to do 2, then we plan to negotiate down the price but not sure by by how much.

4. If neither 2 nor 3 worked, pull out.

Regarding the indemnity policy, we also not sure its implication on any future structural works. Does we need to be very careful when do any structural works to the house? I know that the indemnity insurance policy will be invalidated if any party makes local council aware of the previous works that don’t have building regulation. I think applying for new planning permission could be such case, especially when what your proposed work is close to those previous works. My understanding is that applying any future structural works will risk invalidating the indemnity policy, and potentially also exclude all future buyers who needs a mortgage. We will then be left with only one option of going through retrospective approval (regularisation) if we want to sell.

Any suggestions are much appreciated! Especially those who went through retrospective building approval before.

Thank you all.

jonnydeppiwish!

It's too old - what would you expect the BC certificate to do?  What would expect the indemnity policy to cover?
Get a full structural survey to cover and potential issues, and if you're concerned by the 'damp', get a professional to check it (you will have to pay for it - no free surveys by 'damp' companies).

BC aren't going to be concerned by works that were done son long ago. Additionally, if you apply for retrospective BC, then you'd have to do a lot of work to achieve it as the rules have changed so much since 1987!

Assuming both extensions are still standing without any issues, chances are they'll be fine.

tristanjourney

jonnydeppiwish! said:

It's too old - what would you expect the BC certificate to do? 

Any issues with regards to the completion certificate that I am having now are also issues that are likely to come up again in the future when I come to sell the property. Missing planning consent and completion certificates will always be flagged by buyer's conveyancing solicitors. This may deter some buyers depending how skeptical the buyer/their solicitor/their lender are.

user1977

tristanjourney said:

jonnydeppiwish! said:

It's too old - what would you expect the BC certificate to do? 

Any issues with regards to the completion certificate that I am having now with regards to the purchase are also issues that are likely to come up again in the future when I come to sell the property. Missing planning consent and completion certificates will always be flagged by buyer's conveyancing solicitors. This may deter some buyers depending how skeptical they/their solicitor/their lender are.

Nobody (with any sense) is going to be concerned about lack of paperwork for works done 20+ years ago. The council don't have enforcement squads going around looking for such things, and even if they did, would be out of time in this case.

tristanjourney

user1977 said:

tristanjourney said:

jonnydeppiwish! said:

It's too old - what would you expect the BC certificate to do? 

Any issues with regards to the completion certificate that I am having now with regards to the purchase are also issues that are likely to come up again in the future when I come to sell the property. Missing planning consent and completion certificates will always be flagged by buyer's conveyancing solicitors. This may deter some buyers depending how skeptical they/their solicitor/their lender are.

Nobody (with any sense) is going to be concerned about lack of paperwork for works done 20+ years ago. The council don't have enforcement squads going around looking for such things, and even if they did, would be out of time in this case.

So just ask the seller to take out indemnity policy and proceed?

Like what I asked in the original post, wouldn't the indemnity policy makes any future structural works difficult? Because future planning permissions may invalidate your indemnity policy and any future buyers who have a skeptical lender/solicitor wouldn't be able to proceed.

user1977

tristanjourney said:

user1977 said:

tristanjourney said:

jonnydeppiwish! said:

It's too old - what would you expect the BC certificate to do? 

Any issues with regards to the completion certificate that I am having now with regards to the purchase are also issues that are likely to come up again in the future when I come to sell the property. Missing planning consent and completion certificates will always be flagged by buyer's conveyancing solicitors. This may deter some buyers depending how skeptical they/their solicitor/their lender are.

Nobody (with any sense) is going to be concerned about lack of paperwork for works done 20+ years ago. The council don't have enforcement squads going around looking for such things, and even if they did, would be out of time in this case.

So just ask the seller to take out indemnity policy and proceed?

Like what I asked in the original post, wouldn't the indemnity policy makes any future structural works difficult? Because future planning permissions may invalidate your indemnity policy and any future buyers who have a skeptical lender/solicitor wouldn't be able to proceed.

How could any enforcement occur given how old the works are? The indemnity policy is protecting you against something which simply isn't going to happen anyway - so invalidating it is fairly academic.

jonnydeppiwish!

tristanjourney said:

jonnydeppiwish! said:

It's too old - what would you expect the BC certificate to do? 

Any issues with regards to the completion certificate that I am having now are also issues that are likely to come up again in the future when I come to sell the property. Missing planning consent and completion certificates will always be flagged by buyer's conveyancing solicitors. This may deter some buyers depending how skeptical the buyer/their solicitor/their lender are.

But it’s a non-issue as it’s far too old for any action.

welly_59

As far as I know you don't need planning permission for converting a garage

user1977

welly_59 said:

As far as I know you don't need planning permission for converting a garage

Depends, if you're changing the frontage of the house (which is likely) then that may require planning. And it may have been a planning requirement to have a minimum number of off-road parking spaces on the property, which you'd be reducing by removing the garage.

Section62

jonnydeppiwish! said:

BC aren't going to be concerned by works that were done son long ago. Additionally, if you apply for retrospective BC, then you'd have to do a lot of work to achieve it as the rules have changed so much since 1987!

That is incorrect.  The requirement for regularisation is only to meet the standards that were in force at the time the work was done.

A BCO might discuss with the property owner any improvements that could be made as part of the work to reflect the much higher standards operating today, but there is no requirement for this to be done for regularisation to be given.

jonnydeppiwish! said:

Assuming both extensions are still standing without any issues, chances are they'll be fine.

'Standing' is not the only issue.  Insulation, prevention of ingress of water/moisture,condensation ('damp'), and fire safety are also very important - all could be defective in a building which is 'still standing' after 30 years.  These days 'damp' and poor quality insulation should be high on people's radar.

Section62

welly_59 said:

As far as I know you don't need planning permission for converting a garage

That is incorrect.  The need for planning consent for garage conversion depends on the circumstances.