Need IFA who has authorisation to sign off transfer out of defined benefit scheme

sandsy

So are these schemes some sort of defined contribution scheme with a guaranteed income? 

Marcon

How did you get on with your previous endeavours in terms of managing your own pensions? See https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6088289/sipp-without-sipp-provider#latest

Barney683

Pat38493 said:

Barney683 said:

I don't know how to make it any clearer than I have. Neither is a final salary scheme. The only defined benefit is the (non-existent) spouse being entitled to my pension.

The two IFAs who looked into taking my case were rather surprised by this too. It seems everyone, even IFAs, thinks that a "defined benefit" is the same as a "guaranteed income". I can categorically assure you this is not the case for me. There is absolutely no guaranteed income level in either scheme. But both are classed as having a "defined benefit". 

Did you ever pay any money into this scheme or is it something that was provided by your employer directly?

I've never heard of a DB pension scheme that only provided a spouse pension but nothing at all to the actual pension holder.  

Paid into. The spouse pension obviously doesn't have a guaranteed payment level, other than that it is 100% of whatever I would receive. I guess reason I have two "weird" pensions is that the company was taken over and moved pension provider, and presumably wanted to move to a scheme with the same promises.

Barney683

xylophone said:

To be a member of one DB scheme whose only defined benefit is a widow's pension is unusual - to be a member of two DB Schemes with such rules seems extraordinary!

Are you entitled to any benefit from these schemes at scheme normal pension age?

See answer above - company taken over and presumably wanted continuity of pension guarantees. Aside from the spousal benefit the schemes are no different than any private pension, the value of the pot is equal to the value I paid in plus whatever growth accrued. Normal drawdown rules.

Barney683

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

I don't know how to make it any clearer than I have. Neither is a final salary scheme. The only defined benefit is the (non-existent) spouse being entitled to my pension.

Personally I don't think that is clear at all 🤔

On one hand you say the only benefit is a pension for your non existent spouse.

Then refer to "my pension".  

Can you ever receive any pension payments from this scheme or not?

Sorry if it isn't clear. I get the same bemused reaction from every pension professional, nobody knows such pensions exist. The only defined benefit is to my non-existent spouse. In all other respects it is like any non-final-salary scheme - it pays out to me.

MallyGirl

eskbanker said:

It makes no difference to the ceding schemes but will make a difference to the receiving ones, as there are few, if any, that will accept 'insistent client' transfers without a positive recommendation from the IFA.

If the value you could transfer out is the same as the amount you've paid in, then this does still sound much more like DC rather than DB, but if there are safeguarded benefits then that triggers the requirement for advice, so perhaps there's a terminology issue at play here?

I think this needs exploring more. By saying defined benefit you are sending people down a route around final salary pensions but if it is actually a dc pension with safeguarded benefits then it makes more sense. You still need advice if the pot is over £30k and if the advice is to not transfer then (virtually) no one will accept it coming in to them. You need to check your terminology 

Barney683

Pat38493 said:

Barney683 said:

dunstonh said:

DB transfer business has dropped significantly over this year as CETVs have nearly halved.    

Pretty sure CETVs are not relevant, both schemes told me that the value I could transfer out was the same as the amount of funds I have paid in. These aren't final salary schemes. Both schemes were quite happy for me to take my funds elsewhere - provided I had an IFAs signature on a statement saying that I had received their advice.

I specifically asked if it actually mattered what the IFA's advice was - they said it made no difference what advice the IFA had given me!

given that I now live abroad and wish to switch to a Euro-denominated pension.

This makes things even harder.  It probably only leaves you with a number of firms you can count on one hand.

I'm legally a UK resident still.

Even if this is one firm in 20, I'm still very keen to find one. Do you actually know of any? If not, do you have any advice on how I might locate one?

I'm very grateful for your help!

Are these schemes by any chance ones that you paid into for only a relatively short time in the past (e.g. less than 2 years)?

I seem to recall that some DB schemes have a clause that says if you leave before 2 years or suchlike, you can only get back out the amount you paid in at the end?

I was at the company for 4.5 years during which it was taken over. They kept the old pension scheme going for a while, so I think I paid into that for about 3 years. Then they moved it to another provider, presumably insisting on the same apparently highly unusual structure (no final salary, but spousal death benefit). I paid into that for about 1.5 years. 

As far as the transfer values are concerned, from my attempt at exiting the schemes two years ago I had transfer valuations which were equal to funds paid in plus growth accrued, nothing unusual as far as I could tell.

Barney683

Pablo7474 said:

I don’t think a euro pension will make any difference. There are lots of threads on here about DB pensions. 

Out of interest, why isn’t this pension suitable for you? 

Mostly because I want to manage the funds myself. The fact that the unused benefit is obviously being funded out of something also indicates to me I'm likely to be getting a raw deal on my own payments.

Barney683

Marcon said:

How did you get on with your previous endeavours in terms of managing your own pensions? See https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6088289/sipp-without-sipp-provider#latest

The rest of my pension funds are being managed in a SIPP. And I'm still somewhat annoyed that I have to pay a fortune in monthly charges to the SIPP provider for doing nothing at all, but that's apparently the only option if you want to manage your own funds.

Malthusian

The irony is that if you'd set up your own SIPP two years ago (doing all the non-existent work of HMRC registration and reporting yourself, rather than having a SIPP provider) you'd now be one of the few people able to transfer a pension with safeguarded rights without positive advice. If you run your own pension scheme then you decide whether to accept yourself as an "insistent client". No pension providers are known that will take on insistent clients with safeguarded benefits at present.
What put you off doing the nothing at all yourself?