Help - SSE taking higher monthly payments without permission and inspite of large amount in credit.

nickpe

Hi Guys - please can you take a moment to offer information / advice based on my current Gas and Electric situation...

I am having a big problem with my gas and electric provider SSE, on the basis that they have now attempted to increase my direct debit monthly payments on 4 separate occasions over the past few years despite the fact that on each occasion I have been several hundreds of pounds in credit on each of my gas and electric accounts.

On each occasion I have received an email from them advising they intend to increase the monthly payment , I have had to phone their customer services team to tell them NOT to do so - this in turn has meant me taking approximately 2 hours of my own time (on the previous 4 times) waiting in the phone ques, plus the stress and hassle of actually having to sort something they had unnecessarily created.

However this most recent episode has really made me want to raise a formal complaint...

On the 26th September I received an email from them stating they intended to increase my Gas monthly payments by £57 a month (ontop of what i was already paying) - and they intended to increase my elec prices by £29 a month (ontop of what i was already paying)..... i need to point out that at that moment in time I was already £300 in credit on each of my gas and electric accounts - a total of over £630 in credit in total with the provider SSE.

I called them immediately, and after waiting another 30 minutes in a phone que (stress, hassle and time i didnt need) an agent informed me it was an automatic computer update due to the recent energy price hikes, they apologised for this error and accepted it was not needed to increase my payments due to the large amount i was already in credit and that the amount i paid would remain the same going forwards.

Today I have logged into my online banking and found that they HAVE taken the new higher payments - (even though the told me that they wouldn't in the phone call ), and as things stand today I am currently now over £400 in credit with my gas and £420 in credit with my electric.

I am awaiting the SSE complaints team to contact me, but I would like to know are the Gas and Electric providers allowed to carry off in this manner without any penalties??
They would have no idea if on this occasion they were taking higher unnecessary payments (without my permission) it might have meant i didn't have enough to buy a food shop and it could have caused me financial hardship in various ways.

Am I within reason to ask them for some level of compensation due to the stress they are causing and also the time they are causing me to have to sort this each time they decided they want to take higher payments off me??

Any help advice is much welcomed as I believe they are behaving ridiculous on the grounds they can clearly see I am a very substantial amount in credit therefore should NOT be asking me to pay more and should certainly not be taking more without my permission.

Thanks Nick

[Deleted User]

They're asking several times because you keep saying no.  Their calculations must clearly be indicating that you will end up in debt given the unit price rises and the increase in usage over the winter. Also, they don't need your permission to increase the DD, they just need to tell you (which they have).

We can't possibly help unless we know how much you use.  "Several hundred pounds of credit" could be one month (in which case it would not be enough) or one year (in which case it would be).

ariarnia

i would think if they said on the phone they wouldn't take it then did that might be something you could complain about. but you would need the call recording and call notes to prove it if it got that far ( you can request it by emailing a foi request and giving the date and time of the call). complaints@sseenergyservices.com 

really though i agree with sparky that we need to take a step back. do you give regular meter readings (or do you have a smart meter). if so can you give us 2 readings from each of your meters about a year apart? that will help us work out how much you should expect to pay over the year and if being 6/800 in credit at the time of year (the coldest months) is sensible or stupid for your usage. 

nickpe

[Deleted User] said:

They're asking several times because you keep saying no.  Their calculations must clearly be indicating that you will end up in debt given the unit price rises and the increase in usage over the winter. Also, they don't need your permission to increase the DD, they just need to tell you (which they have).

We can't possibly help unless we know how much you use.  "Several hundred pounds of credit" could be one month (in which case it would not be enough) or one year (in which case it would be).

I understand where you are coming from on this point.

Maybe i will give it a few months over the winter - when our increased useage at the increased unit costs kicks in, but i still feel that the way my account is going i am already sufficiently paying enough based on my useage.

At worst if I  wasnt , it might take a fair few months for that £800 credit to be consumed to an amount where i would need to start paying them even more.

[Deleted User]

nickpe said:

Deleted_User said:

They're asking several times because you keep saying no.  Their calculations must clearly be indicating that you will end up in debt given the unit price rises and the increase in usage over the winter. Also, they don't need your permission to increase the DD, they just need to tell you (which they have).

We can't possibly help unless we know how much you use.  "Several hundred pounds of credit" could be one month (in which case it would not be enough) or one year (in which case it would be).

I understand where you are coming from on this point.

Maybe i will give it a few months over the winter - when our increased useage at the increased unit costs kicks in, but i still feel that the way my account is going i am already sufficiently paying enough based on my useage.

At worst if I  wasnt , it might take a fair few months for that £800 credit to be consumed to an amount where i would need to start paying them even more.

Are you paying a similar amount in DD as last winter?  Gas prices have more than doubled since then, and electricity prices similar.

Each £100 of your bill last December could easily be £250 this December.

nickpe

ariarnia said:

i would think if they said on the phone they wouldn't take it then did that might be something you could complain about. but you would need the call recording and call notes to prove it if it got that far ( you can request it by emailing a foi request and giving the date and time of the call). complaints@sseenergyservices.com 

really though i agree with sparky that we need to take a step back. do you give regular meter readings (or do you have a smart meter). if so can you give us 2 readings from each of your meters about a year apart? that will help us work out how much you should expect to pay over the year and if being 6/800 in credit at the time of year (the coldest months) is sensible or stupid for your usage. 

I have a smart meter so the info they record on me should be accurate information

According to my online SSE app

My Gas reading on 26th September 2022 was 5439 and on the 26th September 2021 it was 4267 .... i think this is kWH units??? so i think that means my annual useage was 1,172 kwh (hope that sounds accurate for a 3 bed detached house with 2 adults and 2 children)

My Elec reading states on 26th September 2022 was 12935 kWh and on the the 26th September 2021 it was 10462.... that would mean an annual useage 2,473 kWH

I hope these figures sound correct and may be meaningful in helping identify my payments vs my usage.

ariarnia

nickpe said:

ariarnia said:

i would think if they said on the phone they wouldn't take it then did that might be something you could complain about. but you would need the call recording and call notes to prove it if it got that far ( you can request it by emailing a foi request and giving the date and time of the call). complaints@sseenergyservices.com 

really though i agree with sparky that we need to take a step back. do you give regular meter readings (or do you have a smart meter). if so can you give us 2 readings from each of your meters about a year apart? that will help us work out how much you should expect to pay over the year and if being 6/800 in credit at the time of year (the coldest months) is sensible or stupid for your usage. 

I have a smart meter so the info they record on me should be accurate information

According to my online SSE app

My Gas reading on 26th September 2022 was 5439 and on the 26th September 2021 it was 4267 .... i think this is kWH units??? so i think that means my annual useage was 1,172 kwh (hope that sounds accurate for a 3 bed detached house with 2 adults and 2 children)

My Elec reading states on 26th September 2022 was 12935 kWh and on the the 26th September 2021 it was 10462.... that would mean an annual useage 2,473 kWH

I hope these figures sound correct and may be meaningful in helping identify my payments vs my usage.

electric is in kwh but gas is normally measured in volumes. if its a smart meter that's meters cubed. so you need to times the number on the meter by about 11.2 for a rough idea. 

so that's something like 13126.4 kwh for gas (that sounds a lot but the 'average' used by ofgem for the cap is 3000 for electric and 12000 of gas so you're actually about right)

just a mo while someone does some math

okay. hopefully someone will check but i get £2530 a year (using our cap rates. we're in the north west). which would be about £210 a month. (at least until april when the cap goes away)

how does that compare to your current dd?

Raxiel

nickpe said:

ariarnia said:

i would think if they said on the phone they wouldn't take it then did that might be something you could complain about. but you would need the call recording and call notes to prove it if it got that far ( you can request it by emailing a foi request and giving the date and time of the call). complaints@sseenergyservices.com 

really though i agree with sparky that we need to take a step back. do you give regular meter readings (or do you have a smart meter). if so can you give us 2 readings from each of your meters about a year apart? that will help us work out how much you should expect to pay over the year and if being 6/800 in credit at the time of year (the coldest months) is sensible or stupid for your usage. 

I have a smart meter so the info they record on me should be accurate information

According to my online SSE app

My Gas reading on 26th September 2022 was 5439 and on the 26th September 2021 it was 4267 .... i think this is kWH units??? so i think that means my annual useage was 1,172 kwh (hope that sounds accurate for a 3 bed detached house with 2 adults and 2 children)

My Elec reading states on 26th September 2022 was 12935 kWh and on the the 26th September 2021 it was 10462.... that would mean an annual useage 2,473 kWH

I hope these figures sound correct and may be meaningful in helping identify my payments vs my usage.

That gas reading looks like m³ to me, there's specific maths to convert volume into kWh, but multiplying by 11.2 is generally close enough. That would put you at around 13k units. A little high for 2021's warm winter but not excessively so, particularly if you have gas cooking which your electricity reading suggests is the case?

[Deleted User]

nickpe said:

ariarnia said:

i would think if they said on the phone they wouldn't take it then did that might be something you could complain about. but you would need the call recording and call notes to prove it if it got that far ( you can request it by emailing a foi request and giving the date and time of the call). complaints@sseenergyservices.com 

really though i agree with sparky that we need to take a step back. do you give regular meter readings (or do you have a smart meter). if so can you give us 2 readings from each of your meters about a year apart? that will help us work out how much you should expect to pay over the year and if being 6/800 in credit at the time of year (the coldest months) is sensible or stupid for your usage. 

I have a smart meter so the info they record on me should be accurate information

According to my online SSE app

My Gas reading on 26th September 2022 was 5439 and on the 26th September 2021 it was 4267 .... i think this is kWH units??? so i think that means my annual useage was 1,172 kwh (hope that sounds accurate for a 3 bed detached house with 2 adults and 2 children)

My Elec reading states on 26th September 2022 was 12935 kWh and on the the 26th September 2021 it was 10462.... that would mean an annual useage 2,473 kWH

I hope these figures sound correct and may be meaningful in helping identify my payments vs my usage.

Electric reading could be right - gas reading is probably in m3 as you have a smart meter so it's actually more like 13000 kWh.  It would actually say their estimate on your statements.

That sort of usage puts you somewhere near the typical household of £2500 per year - or £210 per month.  Bills of £100 in mid-summer up to £325 in mid-winter.

If that's true then your credit is a bit higher than would be expected but not too far (2-3 months of DD is common) and would cover about 2 1/2 months of winter use.

nickpe

Deleted_User said:

nickpe said:

Deleted_User said:

They're asking several times because you keep saying no.  Their calculations must clearly be indicating that you will end up in debt given the unit price rises and the increase in usage over the winter. Also, they don't need your permission to increase the DD, they just need to tell you (which they have).

We can't possibly help unless we know how much you use.  "Several hundred pounds of credit" could be one month (in which case it would not be enough) or one year (in which case it would be).

I understand where you are coming from on this point.

Maybe i will give it a few months over the winter - when our increased useage at the increased unit costs kicks in, but i still feel that the way my account is going i am already sufficiently paying enough based on my useage.

At worst if I  wasnt , it might take a fair few months for that £800 credit to be consumed to an amount where i would need to start paying them even more.

Are you paying a similar amount in DD as last winter?  Gas prices have more than doubled since then, and electricity prices similar.

Each £100 of your bill last December could easily be £250 this December.

In answer to your Question Yes i have been continuing to pay the same amount as last year - for quite some time i have been paying £77 for my elec and £76 for my gas (and even tho i respect its not a large amount, its landed me at where im at today at £400 in credit on each of my gas and elec accounts - i would estimate this is because i dont use much gas or elec during the summer months ..... i do fully appreciate that unit costs have gone up - however i am £400 in credit on each account  - that was my reasoning for thinking they shouldn't need to increase my payments??

Do you suggest the unit costs have gone up at such a rate that my £400 credit on each account will quickly be consumed by the higher unit cost rates and my increased useage over the winter and that i should infact start paying more??

ariarnia

nickpe said:

Deleted_User said:

nickpe said:

Deleted_User said:

They're asking several times because you keep saying no.  Their calculations must clearly be indicating that you will end up in debt given the unit price rises and the increase in usage over the winter. Also, they don't need your permission to increase the DD, they just need to tell you (which they have).

We can't possibly help unless we know how much you use.  "Several hundred pounds of credit" could be one month (in which case it would not be enough) or one year (in which case it would be).

I understand where you are coming from on this point.

Maybe i will give it a few months over the winter - when our increased useage at the increased unit costs kicks in, but i still feel that the way my account is going i am already sufficiently paying enough based on my useage.

At worst if I  wasnt , it might take a fair few months for that £800 credit to be consumed to an amount where i would need to start paying them even more.

Are you paying a similar amount in DD as last winter?  Gas prices have more than doubled since then, and electricity prices similar.

Each £100 of your bill last December could easily be £250 this December.

In answer to your Question Yes i have been continuing to pay the same amount as last year - for quite some time i have been paying £77 for my elec and £76 for my gas (and even tho i respect its not a large amount, its landed me at where im at today at £400 in credit on each of my gas and elec accounts ..... i do fully appreicate that unit costs have gone up - however i am £400 in credit on each account  - that was my reasoning for thinking they shouldnt need to increase my payments??

Do you suggest the unit costs have gone up at such a rate that my £400 credit on each account will quickly be consumed by the higher unit cost rates and that i should infact start paying more??

its' really a combination of two things. one energy has gotten a lot more expensive and two you use a lot more energy in winter than summer (heating. cooking. spending more time at home). so its normal to be in credit at this time of year and to be 0 or in debt by feb or march. 

working out your annual usage sparky and i both seem to agree you should be paying around 210 (assuming that youve not drastically changed anything about how you live since last year such as someone move out or get a new boiler or whatever) 

but it could be warmer or colder or you might be taking steps to cut back. so you could put your dd up now or if you dont want to then maybe you could hold off and review in a bit. but if you do that i'd put that cash somewhere if you can just in case you need to make a top up payment?