Is it legal to park in parking bay behind double yellow line?

Spaghett1Cat

Hello, my partner and I like to spend time in the cafe at South Mimms Welcome Break service station, but they permit only 2 hours of free parking after which I must pay a princely sum to stay (up to 24 hours).

I've looked at nearby roads for public parking and found these strange parking bays that are behind double yellow lines and with no signage related to parking.

There are 2 such bays and they seem to have mostly HGVs parked in them. In Google maps (please replace the underscores around google, as I cannot seem to post links):

Bay 1: www__google__com/maps/@51.6891039,-0.224714,3a,75y,197.79h,81.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sh2eD49Win8yViL3csoJZFw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Bay 2: www__google__com/maps/@51.6879922,-0.2256718,3a,75y,20.97h,95.23t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNMjtFhr2d8NsmDet7Ar16g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Could someone please tell me if these are public parking spaces and safe to park in? Or I'm missing something... ? I'm guessing double yellow lines here means don't park on the road itself.

Thank you for reading.

Spaghett1Cat

The bays are on Swanland Road and St. Albans Road near the services.

Half_way

My instinct says no parking area, probably counciil/local authority.

 Double Yellows count to the edge of the highways, including pavements and verges.

 Its badly signed, and if you look around there is an empty signpost, using the history function you can see a sign that states "No Parking Except abnormal loads awating police escort"

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.6888318,-0.2261112,3a,90y,92.48h,50.38t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sUbZUuNCjCzc5pCYwFmDWXA!2e0!5s20120901T000000!7i13312!8i6656

You could argue the signage isnt right, but it would be a hard push as the DYLs are valid to the edge of the highways including lay byes, and verges

So, No not public pakring spaces, and do not park there .

Alternativly if you are travelling take a look at the just off junction website see here for south mims

https://www.justoffjunction.co.uk/junctionservices.php?motorway=M25&junction=23

There are a couple of pubs, where you may be able to get a coffee and a bite to eat in the area including the Black horse

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.6992286,-0.2348921,3a,75y,46.48h,80.96t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1srBDlK-SqKCX6_OKlkfXE1Q!2e0!5s20200801T000000!7i16384!8i8192

And the Old Guinea

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6891592,-0.2442433,3a,68.2y,132.02h,76.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stwCuHw-XJ2k3uApYGZ-lQA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

both appear to be free from PPCs on the latest google maps / streetview

Umkomaas

Could someone please tell me if these are public parking spaces and safe to park in? Or I'm missing something... ? I'm guessing double yellow lines here means don't park on the road itself.

Much depends on what the signs say. Can we see close ups of them please?

Did your PePiPoo thread give you any other thoughts/answers?

baser999

If you enlarge the picture Half-Way has posted, you’ll see it says no parking except for vehicles awaiting police escort

KeithP

baser999 said:

If you enlarge the picture Half-Way has posted, you’ll see it says no parking except for vehicles awaiting police escort

As @Half_way said...

Half_way said:

 Its badly signed, and if you look around there is an empty signpost, using the history function you can see a sign that states "No Parking Except abnormal loads awaiting police escort".

  

foden11

These bays were originally for abnormal loads awaiting escort but due to trucks/cars parking in them especially at night they were regularly patrolled and tickets issued i cannot remember by who police or counciliam going back over 20 years so things may have changed didnt rate the place personally over priced and not very good

Spaghett1Cat

@Half_way Thank you for the detailed answer, I didn't see those signs on Bay 2.
But looking closely at Bay 1 it doesn't have those signs, so how can vehicles be parked there if it's forbidden by the lines alone?

Thanks for the suggestion of alternative venues, but it's the Welcome Break service station where we like to spend our time because of comfy sofas  so I'm trying to find nearby parking spots because staying longer than 2 hours costs 15GBP.

Umkomaas said:

Much depends on what the signs say. Can we see close ups of them please?

That's the thing: there are no signs to speak of in Bay 1, so there's nothing to screenshot.

Umkomaas said:

Did your PePiPoo thread give you any other thoughts/answers?

Nothing conclusive, which is why I asked here.

Spaghett1Cat

Ah, I got a new response on my thread there pointing to another thread ( forums__pepipoo__com/index.php?showtopic=117225&st=0 ) where an official's letter does indeed say that the DYL span onto laybys and verges so yes it's not allowed to park or even wait there.

If it's forbidden I'm surprised that there are so many cars there with impunity; it's very confusing.

Thanks for your help on this thread, I'll either find some other parking or find another cafe

Coupon-mad

Yes this is correct; many people may not realise but you cannot avoid a double yellow by parking on the verge side of it.