Who is responsible for pointing damage to shared wall?

canterburyhousesearch

We recently purchased a 200 year old terraced property which has an wall which runs along our neighbour's garden. The wall makes up a two storey extension which was likely built around 50-80 years ago.

The wall had a lot of ivy on it which was recently removed by our neighbour. The ivy went all the way up to the roof and covered the entire wall. Upon removal of the ivy, the gardener informed me that some pointing had come away. We have since noticed quite significant damp caused by the damaged pointing, although I imagine the wall was in need of re-pointing anyway. 

The neighbour's property is let, so we went to the property manager to ask about what course of action they recommend. We were hoping that, due to the ivy likely being the root cause of the issue, they would offer to cover the cost of re-pointing. They have come back to say they are not liable. 

Nowhere online can I find a similar case to understand which party is responsible for paying for the repairs. I should note that the wall belongs to us per the searches that came back when we bought the house, but the ivy originated from the neighbour's garden and was allowed to grow all over our property. 

To repair the wall, we would need to gain access to the neighbour's property.

I have attached an image of the site and highlighted the wall in question that is causing us issues. Ours is the slightly longer, wider property on the right. 

If anyone can point me in the right direction, or has an answer to this question, that would be much appreciated. 

Happy to provide further information if I am missing something! 

Bendy_House

It would appear that this is your wall, as it was built as part of your extension. It would also appear that the neighbour allowed ivy to grow up that wall, which they shouldn't have. (This even applies to fences - the neighbouring party isn't 'permitted' to paint or allow planting to grow against it. Ie, they shouldn't, but many folk do in complete ignorance, and you could take action if you really wanted to...)

The problem I suspect you'll have in your case is proving that the ivy caused the damage to a 50+ year old wall. Since you, yourself, don't even know if this is the case, I think you are on a hiding to now't. (How ironic that removing the ivy is allowing damp...)

I think the best you can do is to try and get a contribution, if you really want to 'go there'. So - your call - you could reply to their dismissal by saying you will have the wall assessed by an SE (or whoever is suitable), and - if they state that the damage was almost certainly caused/exacerbated by the ivy - you will be making a claim for the full amount of the repair. However, you'd be prepared to meet them half-way on the cost should they agree before you have to do this.

But, that's heading down a path you may not wish to go - entirely your call.

I'd have thought that it would be quite easy to ascertain the cause of the crumbling pointing - evidence of deep roots, the general state of the mortar (is it crumbly anyway?), but the answer might not be the one you want to hear, as the wall is that old.

My gut says to just get it done yourself, but inform the neighb they mustn't allow plants to grow against it from now on.

The above is an opinion only. 

canterburyhousesearch

Bendy_House said:

It would appear that this is your wall, as it was built as part of your extension. It would also appear that the neighbour allowed ivy to grow up that wall, which they shouldn't have. (This even applies to fences - the neighbouring party isn't 'permitted' to paint or allow planting to grow against it. Ie, they shouldn't, but many folk do in complete ignorance, and you could take action if you really wanted to...)

The problem I suspect you'll have in your case is proving that the ivy caused the damage to a 50+ year old wall. Since you, yourself, don't even know if this is the case, I think you are on a hiding to now't. (How ironic that removing the ivy is allowing damp...)

I think the best you can do is to try and get a contribution, if you really want to 'go there'. So - your call - you could reply to their dismissal by saying you will have the wall assessed by an SE (or whoever is suitable), and - if they state that the damage was almost certainly caused/exacerbated by the ivy - you will be making a claim for the full amount of the repair. However, you'd be prepared to meet them half-way on the cost should they agree before you have to do this.

But, that's heading down a path you may not wish to go - entirely your call.

I'd have thought that it would be quite easy to ascertain the cause of the crumbling pointing - evidence of deep roots, the general state of the mortar (is it crumbly anyway?), but the answer might not be the one you want to hear, as the wall is that old.

My gut says to just get it done yourself, but inform the neighb they mustn't allow plants to grow against it from now on.

The above is an opinion only. 

Thank you. This is a very helpful suggestion and we will pursue this should the property manager continue to push back (which I imagine they will!)

Do you happen to know which law stipulates the fact that the neighbour shouldn't allow plants to grow on our wall? If we do end up paying for the repairs, we will be asking the property manager to remove ivy that is growing on our garden wall (on the neighbour's side), as that is likely causing significant damage, too. 

Bendy_House

No idea. I got it from the general understanding of properties and boundaries (eg fences) - who is responsible, who needs to do what, who doesn't have to do anything, and that malarkey.

Get advice - I doubt this will be clear-cut. For example, many folk allow ivy to grow up walls, not understanding that it 'could' cause problems (and, if the wall is in very sound condition, it shouldn't really cause issues). So, are these folk being 'negligent'? I can't see that they are. 'Ignorant', possibly.

However, if someone informs them that damage is/could be caused, and they then do nothing about it (I understand - to the annoyance of a forum user - it's referred to as 'putting them on notice' of an issue), then they can be liable if it's subsequently found to be the cause. Eg, if someone leans heavy objects against your fence, thinking it's doing no harm, and you tell them there's a risk of damage and to remove them, you should have a solid claim if (a) they don't act, and (b) damage is caused by the objects. Ie - the person would have been 'negligent'.

With ivy, it may be a case of ignorance. You didn't know about it either.

Do you have Legal Protection on your house insurance? If so, call them up for advice in the first instance - just tell them the full facts, don't over-egg, and ask their opinion. All details - the age of the wall, etc. They will soon tell you the chances of a successful claim - and they won't entertain assisting you with the claim unless they are confident of winning. Whether they will try a 'warning shot across t'bows' like a 'paid-for solicitor likely would, I don't know.

Whatever you do, please keep us updated - it's an interesting case.

(And remember, I'm just a layperson giving my best opinion.)

FreeBear

When you get the pointing done, and I'm assuming a solid brick wall, use a pure lime mortar not cement. Lime will have a little more flexibility and won't cause the bricks to spall like cement would.

canterburyhousesearch

As an update to this, we paid for a builder to do the re-pointing. He confirmed that the damage was caused by the neighbour's ivy, but as we didn't get an independent surveyor to confirm this, I don't believe that we can recoup any costs. 

Furthermore, other damage to our property is due to mud on the neighbour's side causing damp to our wall, and a mud build up on a ledge causing significant damp. All the neighbour's fault...

Could anyone suggest anything for us to recoup any of the costs? 

theoretica

canterburyhousesearch said:

Could anyone suggest anything for us to recoup any of the costs? 

Unlikely - especially as you only bought recently and it sounds as though you think the damage is longstanding.  I don't think you can buy a car and then go after the person who scratched it months before you bought it to pay for a repaint.  Seems similar with a house.

theoretica

canterburyhousesearch said:

Do you happen to know which law stipulates the fact that the neighbour shouldn't allow plants to grow on our wall? If we do end up paying for the repairs, we will be asking the property manager to remove ivy that is growing on our garden wall (on the neighbour's side), as that is likely causing significant damage, too. 

Are you sure it is your garden wall?  By saying that, and telling the neighbour how to treat it you would significantly lower the chance of the neighbour seeing it as a joint responsibility to pay for future repairs.

canterburyhousesearch

theoretica said:

canterburyhousesearch said:

Do you happen to know which law stipulates the fact that the neighbour shouldn't allow plants to grow on our wall? If we do end up paying for the repairs, we will be asking the property manager to remove ivy that is growing on our garden wall (on the neighbour's side), as that is likely causing significant damage, too. 

Are you sure it is your garden wall?  By saying that, and telling the neighbour how to treat it you would significantly lower the chance of the neighbour seeing it as a joint responsibility to pay for future repairs.

So the neighbour recently had some ivy killed and then taken down. The act of taking down the ivy is what caused the pointing damage, rather than the wall needing to be re-pointed due to age (as I initially thought was the case).

The wall itself belongs to us and the damage caused by the neighbour's ivy has caused damp within our property. 

Below is a screenshot of our house (the slightly wider one on the right), with the wall in question highlighted. 

The important point is that the damage is fully caused by the neighbour allowing ivy to grow up our house and then arranging for a gardener to kill it and remove it, which caused pointing to be pulled out in the process.

theoretica

canterburyhousesearch said:

theoretica said:

canterburyhousesearch said:

Do you happen to know which law stipulates the fact that the neighbour shouldn't allow plants to grow on our wall? If we do end up paying for the repairs, we will be asking the property manager to remove ivy that is growing on our garden wall (on the neighbour's side), as that is likely causing significant damage, too. 

Are you sure it is your garden wall?  By saying that, and telling the neighbour how to treat it you would significantly lower the chance of the neighbour seeing it as a joint responsibility to pay for future repairs.

So the neighbour recently had some ivy killed and then taken down. The act of taking down the ivy is what caused the pointing damage, rather than the wall needing to be re-pointed due to age (as I initially thought was the case).

The wall itself belongs to us and the damage caused by the neighbour's ivy has caused damp within our property. 

Below is a screenshot of our house (the slightly wider one on the right), with the wall in question highlighted. 

The important point is that the damage is fully caused by the neighbour allowing ivy to grow up our house and then arranging for a gardener to kill it and remove it, which caused pointing to be pulled out in the process.

I thought in the quoted bit you were at talking about ivy growing on the wall between the two gardens, rather than your extension wall. 

canterburyhousesearch

theoretica said:

canterburyhousesearch said:

theoretica said:

canterburyhousesearch said:

Do you happen to know which law stipulates the fact that the neighbour shouldn't allow plants to grow on our wall? If we do end up paying for the repairs, we will be asking the property manager to remove ivy that is growing on our garden wall (on the neighbour's side), as that is likely causing significant damage, too. 

Are you sure it is your garden wall?  By saying that, and telling the neighbour how to treat it you would significantly lower the chance of the neighbour seeing it as a joint responsibility to pay for future repairs.

So the neighbour recently had some ivy killed and then taken down. The act of taking down the ivy is what caused the pointing damage, rather than the wall needing to be re-pointed due to age (as I initially thought was the case).

The wall itself belongs to us and the damage caused by the neighbour's ivy has caused damp within our property. 

Below is a screenshot of our house (the slightly wider one on the right), with the wall in question highlighted. 

The important point is that the damage is fully caused by the neighbour allowing ivy to grow up our house and then arranging for a gardener to kill it and remove it, which caused pointing to be pulled out in the process.

I thought in the quoted bit you were at talking about ivy growing on the wall between the two gardens, rather than your extension wall. 

There is also significant ivy still growing on the brick wall (which we own), from the neighbour's side. We've had to fight to get that removed, but it looks like the process might be starting next week. 

We're fighting with the property agent, as the property next to ours is a rental.