Capital Gearing Trust

MarcoM

Hi,

I like the look of this trust however its costs are quite considerable when held via HL.

I was wondering if there are other trusts maybe less known that have similar characteristics but with a smaller cost to hold.

Thanks

wmb194

MarcoM said:

Hi,

I like the look of this trust however its costs are quite considerable when held via HL.

I was wondering if there are other trusts maybe less known that have similar characteristics but with a smaller cost to hold.

Thanks

Why not use another, cheaper, broker?

ColdIron

HL can be quite reasonable for ITs. £0 pa unwrapped. Capped at £45 pa in an ISA

Are we talking 3, 4 or 5 figures?

MarcoM

wmb194 said:

MarcoM said:

Hi,

I like the look of this trust however its costs are quite considerable when held via HL.

I was wondering if there are other trusts maybe less known that have similar characteristics but with a smaller cost to hold.

Thanks

Why not use another, cheaper, broker?

the broker charge is 0.45% which as you say I could get cheaper.
However I am happy with H and L and would rather not change.

The trust charges 1.4% per year, this is where I was looking for savings if anything similar exists.

MarcoM

ColdIron said:

HL can be quite reasonable for ITs. £0 pa unwrapped. Capped at £45 pa in an ISA

Are we talking 3, 4 or 5 figures?

could be any of the three but more like 5 figures.
either in an isa ot a simple fund share account.

aroominyork

MarcoM said:

wmb194 said:

MarcoM said:

Hi,

I like the look of this trust however its costs are quite considerable when held via HL.

I was wondering if there are other trusts maybe less known that have similar characteristics but with a smaller cost to hold.

Thanks

Why not use another, cheaper, broker?

The trust charges 1.4% per year, this is where I was looking for savings if anything similar exists.

Where did you get this from? HL says it is 0.84%, Interactive Investor says 0.73%, CGT's factsheet says "60bps on net assets <£120m, 45bps on net assets >£120m, 30bps on net assets >£500m" which, since it has about 1.275bn assets under management, computes to 0.4755%.

MarcoM

aroominyork said:

MarcoM said:

wmb194 said:

MarcoM said:

Hi,

I like the look of this trust however its costs are quite considerable when held via HL.

I was wondering if there are other trusts maybe less known that have similar characteristics but with a smaller cost to hold.

Thanks

Why not use another, cheaper, broker?

The trust charges 1.4% per year, this is where I was looking for savings if anything similar exists.

Where did you get this from? HL says it is 0.84%, Interactive Investor says 0.73%, CGT's factsheet says "60bps on net assets <£120m, 45bps on net assets >£120m, 30bps on net assets >£500m" which, since it has about 1.275bn assets under management, computes to 0.4755%.

Investment

£5,000.00

HL charges

£146.44

Investment charges		£239.55
Net initial charge	0%	£0.00
Net ongoing charge	0.84%	£228.24
Incidental charges		£0.00
Transaction costs		£-13.63
Stamp duty	0.5%	£24.94

Total charges over 5 years		£385.99
Average annual charge		1.42%
Illustrative 5 year value		£5,942.70
Illustrative 5 year value with no charges applied		£6,381.41

eskbanker

MarcoM said:

aroominyork said:

MarcoM said:

wmb194 said:

MarcoM said:

Hi,

I like the look of this trust however its costs are quite considerable when held via HL.

I was wondering if there are other trusts maybe less known that have similar characteristics but with a smaller cost to hold.

Thanks

Why not use another, cheaper, broker?

The trust charges 1.4% per year, this is where I was looking for savings if anything similar exists.

Where did you get this from? HL says it is 0.84%, Interactive Investor says 0.73%, CGT's factsheet says "60bps on net assets <£120m, 45bps on net assets >£120m, 30bps on net assets >£500m" which, since it has about 1.275bn assets under management, computes to 0.4755%.

Investment

£5,000.00

HL charges

£146.44

Investment charges		£239.55
Net initial charge	0%	£0.00
Net ongoing charge	0.84%	£228.24
Incidental charges		£0.00
Transaction costs		£-13.63
Stamp duty	0.5%	£24.94

Total charges over 5 years		£385.99
Average annual charge		1.42%
Illustrative 5 year value		£5,942.70
Illustrative 5 year value with no charges applied		£6,381.41

So the trust charges 0.84% then.

The fact that an annualised cost of buying it and holding it at HL for five years is 1.4% is answering a different question.

Linton

The 2 main Wealth Preservation trusts are CGT and Personal Assets Trusts (PNL).  

Then not quitie he same but sometimes placed in the same category are Ruffer Investment TRUST (RIT) and RIT Capital Partners (RCP).  RIT is a little eccentric eg going into Bitcoin in a small way.   RCP  was set by the Rothschilds to look after their finances, and the family still have very large holdings.  It is rather higher equity and thus more volatile than one might expect in a wealth preservation fund.  I dont believe the costs will be significantly cheaper.

I dont believe the costs make any signifgicant difference to the behaviour of the funds.  If you are after a high long term return and low costs use a 100 % equity tracker and accept the high volatility.  If you want steady growth with minimal excitement in a wide range of economic conditions I think CGT and PNL are worth hiolding.  The graphs shows the last 5 years which provides a good example.  Note that such graphs are after fund manager costs though obviously cannot include platform costs.

aroominyork

OK, so you cannot say "The trust charges 1.4% per year". The Trust charges 0.85% according to HL (though my last post questions that). The rest of the costs are stamp duty, which is payable on any investment trust at 0.5%, and HL's platform fee. As ColdIron says, HL's platform fee varies from 0% unwrapped, to 0.45% capped at £45 in ISA, to 0.45% capped at £200 in SIPP.

Albermarle

aroominyork said:

MarcoM said:

wmb194 said:

MarcoM said:

Hi,

I like the look of this trust however its costs are quite considerable when held via HL.

I was wondering if there are other trusts maybe less known that have similar characteristics but with a smaller cost to hold.

Thanks

Why not use another, cheaper, broker?

The trust charges 1.4% per year, this is where I was looking for savings if anything similar exists.

Where did you get this from? HL says it is 0.84%, Interactive Investor says 0.73%, CGT's factsheet says "60bps on net assets <£120m, 45bps on net assets >£120m, 30bps on net assets >£500m" which, since it has about 1.275bn assets under management, computes to 0.4755%.

Fidelity say only 0.52%. So for some reason they all say something different, but it is certainly < 1 %