Campaign to ban Standing Charges

The_Green_Hornet

I wonder who is going to have the last word. 

Damn, I've run out of popcorn. Back later

wittynamegoeshere

ariarnia said:

wittynamegoeshere said:

Deleted_User said:

wittynamegoeshere said:

The fact that comparison websites even need to exist is in itself a clear sign that the "market" doesn't work.

The fact that insurance comparison sites exist is a clear sign that the insurance market doesn't work.

The fact that hotel comparison sites exist is a clear sign that the hotel market doesn't work.

The fact that petrol price comparison sites exist is a clear sign that the petrol price market doesn't work.

Do you not see how much nonsense that is?

I'll ignore your usual patronising and abrasive tone and give your response the constructive reply it doesn't deserve.

Lots of people shop around for insurance, hotels, petrol and tins of beans without using comparison sites.  For almost everything on the planet other than energy, most people do not use a comparison service, for the simple reason that they don't need one.

Almost everyone has to use a comparison site for switching energy, for the simple reason that it's not practically possible for people to compare without one.  This is due to the fact that the standing charge is muddled up together with the unit charge, which means that customers can not use the raw numbers to compare.

But I'm sure there'll be another bunch of muddled reasons about to be blasted back as to why everything must always stay as it is to keep things as they are, by the resident energy industry ex-employee and chums.

the only way i know to 'shop around' for insurance or hotels without using a comparison site is to phone several and ask for a quote. which you can also do with energy companies if you want to. comparison sites just make it easier (imo) because all the offers are in one place and you dont have to keep track of who offered what. which is why people comparison sites. not because its too complicated not to but because its easier to.  

Do I really need to prove what's utterly obvious to anyone who isn't just arguing for the sake of it?  How many clicks does it take on a typical energy supplier's website to become a customer or even find some prices?  Here's one at random off the top of my head...

https://www.britishgas.co.uk/

I can't see a link to becoming a new customer (or being told to go away as is more likely these days).  The complete absence of any potential new customer information suggests that they accept the reality that this is not how new customers arrive.

In contrast...

https://www.premierinn.com

The box at the top of the front page is inviting you to tell them where and when so they can tell you how much it is and take some money off you.

Hotels publish prices openly, welcome new customers arriving directly on their website and generally behave like normal commercial companies flogging stuff to people.  Energy companies don't bother trying because they don't need to, and hide their prices.  This is because new customers arrive via other websites, due to the complexity of their prices.

Bundling a random standing charge together with the variable unit rates is just one of the weapons they use to stop customers shopping around, by making at-a-glance price comparisons impossible.

[Deleted User]

But if you go to the actual supplier's site - not the British Gas group homepage, you get this:



Which has the link that you claim doesn't exist in a big blue box as the first thing on the page.

But you knew this, and just wanted to keep making the same tired point.

wittynamegoeshere

I didn't know this, I just googled British Gas.  What percentage of potential new customers do you think know about the fact that to join British Gas you need to go elsewhere?

wittynamegoeshere

Another one, randomly off the top of my head then...

https://www.ovoenergy.com/

Again, I've no idea how to become a customer or what their prices are.

The point is that new customers don't usually arrive by this route, otherwise they'd make it easy.

I've lost track of the argument quite honestly, are some still seriously arguing that most people don't need price comparison sites to switch energy suppliers, and/or that prices are easy to find and compare?

[Deleted User]

wittynamegoeshere said:

Another one, randomly off the top of my head then...

https://www.ovoenergy.com/

Again, I've no idea how to become a customer or what their prices are.

The point is that new customers don't usually arrive by this route, otherwise they'd make it easy.

I've lost track of the argument quite honestly, are some still seriously arguing that most people don't need price comparison sites to switch energy suppliers?

That standing charges should be banned.

wittynamegoeshere

Variable standing charges should be banned.

Zero or fixed standing charges would make tariffs easier to compare so would allow customers to understand how much they're paying, encourage competition and reduce prices due to competition.

But this would be bad for energy supplier profit margins so some around here wouldn't like it.

Alnat1

Next one to post is an ugly mugged bogey bum.

[Deleted User]

wittynamegoeshere said:

Variable standing charges should be banned.

Zero or fixed standing charges would make tariffs easier to compare so would allow customers to understand how much they're paying, encourage competition and reduce prices due to competition.

But this would be bad for energy supplier profit margins so some around here wouldn't like it.

Apart from your usual attacks on the motivation of posters - I still can't understand how you can argue that removing the option of customers to choose between a 'normal' standing charge/unit price tariff and a zero standing charge/higher unit price tariff is encouraging competition.

pensionpawn

[Deleted User] said:

ariarnia said:

it would be good if it would be possible to not pay the standing charge for vacant properties if someone is in hospital or if probate is taking a long time and the services arent being used at all. like the council tax grace period. discomnection and reconnection is expensive and not really an option. but that will only be a very small number of people each year. i would also hope that we have more tariffs in the future that are 0 standing charge. then people can decide for themselves if they are better off with higher unit rates and no charge (very low users) or paying the charge. but thats also not going to happen until theres some competition again so 2 years plus. 

Some suppliers actually do this - if you have many months with zero usage, they have been known to waive the standing charge (and even backdate that decision) - but it's hit-and-miss who does and when.

I think we would have zero standing charge tariffs now still, if the cap wasn't structured how it is.  At the moment, you can't increase unit rates over the cap to cover a zero standing charge to give that option because it would break the licence conditions, and no supplier is going to have two tariffs with the same rate but only one of them with standing charges.  Although I suppose the cap-exempt green suppliers probably could do the variance required.

Why not? Levy the standing charge on the unit rate and offer as an alternative. Let the customer decide which tariff works for them based on their energy needs.