HSBC Global Money Account launched

adamp87

Can you use this just for general spending abroad?

gt94sss2

adamp87 said:

Can you use this just for general spending abroad?

Yes, you can

Marchitiello

@OceanSound I have edited by response to fully address your last post, as you have simply made wrong assumptions and arrived to even worst conclusions.

OceanSound

Miles86 said:

OceanSound said:

Miles86 said:

OceanSound said:

Marchitiello said:

OceanSound said:

Band7 said:

OceanSound said:

Not much of a range of currencies. Only a select few. Wise (formerly transfer wise) has much more of a range.

You don't get FSCS protection with Wise, and their exchange rate doesn't come close to HSBC's. So using HSBC for the currencies they offer makes sense for spending.

Where HSBC falls down is that you cannot receive foreign currency by bank transfer, and you can't have DDs (or SOs, I believe). But this is only relevant if you need this functionality.

Horses for courses.

You would need to post a side by side comparison of HSBC and wise on how wise rate '" doesn't come close to HSBC's''. 

I don't particularly need fscs protection for the wise borderless account as I don't keep much money in there. Only transfer from other current account to wise when I need to do a conversion. 

Money usually arrives within seconds NOW (this didn't use to happen but now been fixed). There was one occasion recently where it took days as wise said transaction was held for fraud checks. So that's something to watch out for. If we need to withdraw cash urgently and we do the transfer to wise but money dosen't arrive immediately, then we are stuffed. But like I said this happens once in a blue moon. 

The horses for courses hadn't been mentioned up to now in this thread. Good to see something fresh.

Here is some context. HSBC offer about 18 currencies. They do no not offer THB, VND, MYR. All currencies I need.

Wise app used to have a few niggles, but is now much improved, and is packed with features. HSBC's looks 'spartan'. Believe me I've been using the hsbc app since it's launch.

edit: i did some experiments/testing re. wise exchange rate 'not coming close to HSBC's'

Here are my results:

Just doing a conversion from 1 GBP to USD

HSBC

1 GBP = 1.13 USD

Rate= 1.129534
Fee: ???

Wise

1 GBP = 1.12 USD

Rate= 1.13260

Fee: 0.01 GBP

---

Convert 10 GBP to USD

HSBC

10 GBP = 11.29 USD

Rate = 1.129
fee= ???

Wise

10 GBP = 11.28 USD

Rate = 1.13205

Fee= 0.04 GBP

For 10 GBP conversion to USD HSBC beats wise by 1 cent. However, I cannot see any fee information on HSBC conversion. 

For 100 GBP HSBC conversion was 16 cents better. Again, no fee info. I'd rather get 16 cents less from Wise just for the fee transparency. 

'Not coming close' is a bit of a stretch taking into account the results above.

edit2: details of 100 GBP conversion - 

HSBC

100 GBP = 113.02 USD

rate = 1.130232
fee: ???

Wise

100 GBP = 112.86 USD

rate = 1.13380

fee = 0.44 GBP

 

 

There are no fees within the Global Money account, it has been covered earlier in the thread… also someone else did a comparison and HSBC changing £20 into Euro and there was 30 cents difference (worst off) with wise, due to fee.

I always looked at the net amount after conversion and fee to establish true exchange rates, and although I use wise (mainly for business transactions), due to fees, it has never been the best net conversion I could get.

At the moment HSBC Global Money comes first, Fineco UK second, Starling third and Wise last…

finally, for all the comments around not being able to receive money directly into HSBC Global Money in other currencies, according to HSBC own information, this should be only a temporary limitation and this facility will be available in the future. 

At the moment HSBC Global Money comes first, Fineco UK second, Starling third and Wise last…

I take it the above is from your own experiments? 

What currency or currencies were you converting to? e.g USD? or other currencies. Were the experiments done recently or a while ago? How did you keep track of the final converted amount? because if you use HSBC to check conversion of 100 GBP to USD, when you swap to fineco app to check the rate may have changed, similarly, when swapping apps to Starling the rate may have changed again!!.

edit: according to a test by another forumite, starling came second, fineco UK third:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79567141/#Comment_79567141

and wise as you say came last (4th place in the pool of 4 competitors).

The danger of just marking someone as 'best' in this regard is that some folks would keep using (without comparing with other providers or current exchange rate) them as they are labelled 'best'. The 'best' one can then increase their fee and catch those folks off guard. 

Those folks that always compare with other providers (or do a quick check using a platform such as xe.com) don't fall for that. With companies like hsbc who do not publish their fee at the time of conversion the above trick can be done easily. Whereas with wise, I would compare the rate with xe.com and if it matches (or comes close) then check the fee and it's reasonable, I go ahead with conversion.

Anyway, rather than relying on sub-standard, off the cuff, ameturish  experiments from forumites like me and you, it'll be good to see a consumer organisation such as 'Which? magazine' doing a proper comparison/experiment with a range of currencies using a range of providers.

Edit:

There are no fees within the Global Money account,...

I really doubt this. The rate shown by wise (which is the 'pure' exchange rate and is not inclusive of the fee) is much better when compared with HSBC's exchange rate.

Also, I did a test just now converting 100 GBP to USD using HSBC Global Money:

100 GBP = 114.48 USD

On xe.com website (I immediately click refresh on that website, so there is only 1-2 seconds between checking HSBC rate and checking xe.com rate): 

100 GBP = 114.74 USD

You seem to be confusing 'Fee' with 'Margin' which makes your post awkward to follow.

The HSBC product has no Fees. Yes there will be margin in the exchange rate but there are no fees.

"With companies like hsbc who do not publish their fee at the time of conversion the above trick can be done easily."

This is downright false. Implies a fee is implied later, which it is not, and implies you don't know what the transaction will cost, which you do.

Wise uses mid-market rates:

https://wise.com/gb/mid-market-rate

"How is the exchange rate set?

How many dollars go into a euro? How many euros go into a yen? How many yen go into a pound?

If you’re thinking ‘The exchange rate decides all that,’ then you’re right. But who decides the exchange rate?

Banks and other providers all set their own rates, so there’s no one answer. But for all intents and purposes, there is a ‘real’ rate out there. It’s called the mid-market rate."

Indeed. However using 'Fee' when you mean 'Margin' is just causing confusion.

Semantics really! I could've used 'commission', or worse 'hidden fee'!

@marchitiello: don't have time to reply to your post right now, I may edit this post in reply later if I get some time.  However, I can tell you this, if my assumptions are wrong, yours must be not even wrong, because I never used xe.com and actually converted. Only used their website currency converter where it clearly states:

"We use the mid-market rate for our Converter. This is for informational purposes only. You won’t receive this rate when sending money. Check send rates"

adindas

OceanSound said:

Miles86 said:

OceanSound said:

Miles86 said:

OceanSound said:

Marchitiello said:

OceanSound said:

Band7 said:

OceanSound said:

Not much of a range of currencies. Only a select few. Wise (formerly transfer wise) has much more of a range.

You don't get FSCS protection with Wise, and their exchange rate doesn't come close to HSBC's. So using HSBC for the currencies they offer makes sense for spending.

Where HSBC falls down is that you cannot receive foreign currency by bank transfer, and you can't have DDs (or SOs, I believe). But this is only relevant if you need this functionality.

Horses for courses.

You would need to post a side by side comparison of HSBC and wise on how wise rate '" doesn't come close to HSBC's''. 

I don't particularly need fscs protection for the wise borderless account as I don't keep much money in there. Only transfer from other current account to wise when I need to do a conversion. 

Money usually arrives within seconds NOW (this didn't use to happen but now been fixed). There was one occasion recently where it took days as wise said transaction was held for fraud checks. So that's something to watch out for. If we need to withdraw cash urgently and we do the transfer to wise but money dosen't arrive immediately, then we are stuffed. But like I said this happens once in a blue moon. 

The horses for courses hadn't been mentioned up to now in this thread. Good to see something fresh.

Here is some context. HSBC offer about 18 currencies. They do no not offer THB, VND, MYR. All currencies I need.

Wise app used to have a few niggles, but is now much improved, and is packed with features. HSBC's looks 'spartan'. Believe me I've been using the hsbc app since it's launch.

edit: i did some experiments/testing re. wise exchange rate 'not coming close to HSBC's'

Here are my results:

Just doing a conversion from 1 GBP to USD

HSBC

1 GBP = 1.13 USD

Rate= 1.129534
Fee: ???

Wise

1 GBP = 1.12 USD

Rate= 1.13260

Fee: 0.01 GBP

---

Convert 10 GBP to USD

HSBC

10 GBP = 11.29 USD

Rate = 1.129
fee= ???

Wise

10 GBP = 11.28 USD

Rate = 1.13205

Fee= 0.04 GBP

For 10 GBP conversion to USD HSBC beats wise by 1 cent. However, I cannot see any fee information on HSBC conversion. 

For 100 GBP HSBC conversion was 16 cents better. Again, no fee info. I'd rather get 16 cents less from Wise just for the fee transparency. 

'Not coming close' is a bit of a stretch taking into account the results above.

edit2: details of 100 GBP conversion - 

HSBC

100 GBP = 113.02 USD

rate = 1.130232
fee: ???

Wise

100 GBP = 112.86 USD

rate = 1.13380

fee = 0.44 GBP

 

 

There are no fees within the Global Money account, it has been covered earlier in the thread… also someone else did a comparison and HSBC changing £20 into Euro and there was 30 cents difference (worst off) with wise, due to fee.

I always looked at the net amount after conversion and fee to establish true exchange rates, and although I use wise (mainly for business transactions), due to fees, it has never been the best net conversion I could get.

At the moment HSBC Global Money comes first, Fineco UK second, Starling third and Wise last…

finally, for all the comments around not being able to receive money directly into HSBC Global Money in other currencies, according to HSBC own information, this should be only a temporary limitation and this facility will be available in the future. 

At the moment HSBC Global Money comes first, Fineco UK second, Starling third and Wise last…

I take it the above is from your own experiments? 

What currency or currencies were you converting to? e.g USD? or other currencies. Were the experiments done recently or a while ago? How did you keep track of the final converted amount? because if you use HSBC to check conversion of 100 GBP to USD, when you swap to fineco app to check the rate may have changed, similarly, when swapping apps to Starling the rate may have changed again!!.

edit: according to a test by another forumite, starling came second, fineco UK third:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79567141/#Comment_79567141

and wise as you say came last (4th place in the pool of 4 competitors).

The danger of just marking someone as 'best' in this regard is that some folks would keep using (without comparing with other providers or current exchange rate) them as they are labelled 'best'. The 'best' one can then increase their fee and catch those folks off guard. 

Those folks that always compare with other providers (or do a quick check using a platform such as xe.com) don't fall for that. With companies like hsbc who do not publish their fee at the time of conversion the above trick can be done easily. Whereas with wise, I would compare the rate with xe.com and if it matches (or comes close) then check the fee and it's reasonable, I go ahead with conversion.

Anyway, rather than relying on sub-standard, off the cuff, ameturish  experiments from forumites like me and you, it'll be good to see a consumer organisation such as 'Which? magazine' doing a proper comparison/experiment with a range of currencies using a range of providers.

Edit:

There are no fees within the Global Money account,...

I really doubt this. The rate shown by wise (which is the 'pure' exchange rate and is not inclusive of the fee) is much better when compared with HSBC's exchange rate.

Also, I did a test just now converting 100 GBP to USD using HSBC Global Money:

100 GBP = 114.48 USD

On xe.com website (I immediately click refresh on that website, so there is only 1-2 seconds between checking HSBC rate and checking xe.com rate): 

100 GBP = 114.74 USD

You seem to be confusing 'Fee' with 'Margin' which makes your post awkward to follow.

The HSBC product has no Fees. Yes there will be margin in the exchange rate but there are no fees.

"With companies like hsbc who do not publish their fee at the time of conversion the above trick can be done easily."

This is downright false. Implies a fee is implied later, which it is not, and implies you don't know what the transaction will cost, which you do.

Wise uses mid-market rates:

https://wise.com/gb/mid-market-rate

"How is the exchange rate set?

How many dollars go into a euro? How many euros go into a yen? How many yen go into a pound?

If you’re thinking ‘The exchange rate decides all that,’ then you’re right. But who decides the exchange rate?

Banks and other providers all set their own rates, so there’s no one answer. But for all intents and purposes, there is a ‘real’ rate out there. It’s called the mid-market rate."

Indeed. However using 'Fee' when you mean 'Margin' is just causing confusion.

Semantics really! I could've used 'commission', or worse 'hidden fee'!

@marchitiello: don't have time to reply to your post right now, I may edit this post in reply later if I get some time.  However, I can tell you this, if my assumptions are wrong, yours must be not even wrong, because I never used xe.com and actually converted. Only used their website currency converter where it clearly states:

"We use the mid-market rate for our Converter. This is for informational purposes only. You won’t receive this rate when sending money. Check send rates"

The way I see it like this:

Wise is using interbank exchange rate (.e.g. mid market rate) the same with what you will find with Revolut, xe.com + 0.35% Mark up.

"We use the real exchange rate – it’s the rate you’ll find on independent sources like Google, XE, and Yahoo Finance. (Our fees are as low as 0.35%.) https://wise.com/gb/blog/how-does-transferwise-work"

So compare to WISE vs Revolut, if it is solely based on the exchange rate Revolut always win. But there is also Revolut limitation e,g CS, or when you want to take out your cash from ATM.

HSBC Global is using Visa Exchange, no Fees at the time/date when the transaction is recorded on your statement. You also get multi currencies debit-card

As a general rule

-  interbank exchange rate (.e.g. mid market rate) is dynamic, change all the time during the day.

- VISA exchange rate only change 1-2x a day (e.g luch time, closing hours ?). . So you will only now the exchange rate on that day when VISA officially publish its exchange rate on that day.

- Generally Speaking interbank exchange rate (.e.g. mid market rate) beats VISA exchange rate. But not 100% all the time, as it is also depending on the time of exchange. It could happen they are worse when there is a high volatility.

I have not got WISE account, But I already have HSBC global and revolut.

As I understand all of them have the advantage of allowing you to pre-exchange when the GBP rate is in your favour and keep it into your electronic wallet ready to be spent when needed using that currency.

In safety, HSBC global is safer as it is part of your HSBC account, WISE does not have a banking licence. So it might be good if you exchange and use it straight away without the need to keep it for longer. Also they support more currency to be put into the wallet. But again the exchange rate is worse.

Marchitiello

Reading te last two response, I still see confusion:

the same way as back in the day I was only partially interested in the advertised exchange rate when browsing bureau de change in the London West end that then ended up given you a different amount once all fees Where taken into account, I am still only mildly  interested in advertised exchange rates online by XE, Wise, Revolut etc.. 

What I am really interested is who gives me more currency for my GBP money (and vice versa) and as per mine and the other for forumite experiment, currently it is clearly HSBC Global money.

XE can be used to check mid market rate, good as reference only if you do not exchange with them.

so in summary, Starling apply fees on top of the exchange rate shown when you actually convert currency, so does Wise and others. Fineco and HSBC money instead show you the actual exchange rate you get, no other fees that will impact that, again no hard to get why they are better in Net Value conversion rather then theoretical exchange rate.

@adindas I am not sure HSBC UK Global Money actually use Visa Exchange rates, someone reported that above, as I was actually arguing that if no pre-converted in the currency needed, with the card being a Visa, it was probably better to use an alternative Forex Free MasterCard.

I posted the differences between HSBC GM and Visa exchange rate on a particular day up thread and the above was pointed out to me.

adindas

Marchitiello said:

@adindas I am not sure HSBC UK Global Money actually use Visa Exchange rates, someone reported that above, as I was actually arguing that if no pre-converted in the currency needed, with the card being a Visa, it was probably better to use an alternative Forex Free MasterCard.

I posted the differences between HSBC GM and Visa exchange rate on a particular day up thread and the above was pointed out to me.

Mastercard exchange rate is generally better than Visa Exchange rate. I remember a few years ago MSE did a research by doing comparison and published the result. Whether it is still the case nowadays, dunno. But I believe so.

Marchitiello said:

@adindas I am not sure HSBC UK Global Money actually use Visa Exchange rates, someone reported that above, as I was actually arguing that if no pre-converted in the currency needed, with the card being a Visa, it was probably better to use an alternative Forex Free MasterCard.

I posted the differences between HSBC GM and Visa exchange rate on a particular day up thread and the above was pointed out to me.

https://www.hsbc.co.uk/international/travel-money-card/faqs/#debit

Marchitiello I think you are right Visa exchange rate is only used in debit-card transaction. Not when pre-exchange to be kept in the wallet is getting involved.

What exchange rates apply to my card transactions?
"If you have enough funds in the currency of the transaction, no exchange rate will apply.
If you don't have the transaction currency, or there isn't enough of it in your account, your card will auto-convert from your Global Money GBP balance if you have enough funds. (The Global Money Exchange Rate is used if it's a currency we can hold a balance in, otherwise the Visa daily exchange rate is used.)

What exchange rates will I get ?

"Our live HSBC Global Money Account exchange rates are updated by the second during market hours. This means we can always offer our most up-to-date rate, providing you with visibility and certainty of how much you're sending. The exchange rate will be displayed in the mobile app before you confirm your payment and will be valid for 40 seconds before refreshing."

"What I am really interested is who gives me more currency for my GBP money (and vice versa) and as per mine and the other for forumite experiment, currently it is clearly HSBC Global money."

In my opinion, the clear winner is Revolut as they are using interbank exchange rate without mark up. It is only that if you need it for ATM cash withdrawal it is not really helpful. But you could overcome this if you could open a local bank account in another country in local currency and transfer your money to that currency. By this way you d not need Revolut pre-paid card to withdraw cash from ATM.

Revolut CS is horrible based on reported people experience.

gt94sss2

adindas said:

Mastercard exchange rate is generally better than Visa Exchange rate. I remember a few years ago MSE did a research by doing comparison and published the result. Whether it is still the case nowadays, dunno. But I believe so.

MSE now claim that Visa offer a better exchange rate than MasterCard do - though there is not much in it

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/credit-cards/travel-credit-cards/#ntk

adindas

gt94sss2 said:

adindas said:

Mastercard exchange rate is generally better than Visa Exchange rate. I remember a few years ago MSE did a research by doing comparison and published the result. Whether it is still the case nowadays, dunno. But I believe so.

MSE now claim that Visa offer a better exchange rate than MasterCard do - though there is not much in it

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/credit-cards/travel-credit-cards/#ntk

Good to know this but unlike the previous conclusion (e.g when they stated that Master was slightly better than Visa) this time they have not published their research result when stating that Visa is slightly better than Master.

As mentioned, their analysis and research was in 2015 so might be irrelevant today. The things change all the time like the current best saving account might not be the best in a few years to come.

But this was their original analysis and research when it was published in 2015.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2015/05/mastercard-vs-visa-for-using-abroad-which-wins/

Marchitiello

With regards to MasterCard vs Visa, I thought everybody was familiar with their respective live tools:

https://www.mastercard.co.uk/en-gb/personal/get-support/convert-currency.html

https://www.visa.co.uk/support/consumer/travel-support/exchange-rate-calculator.html

I use them quite often as I have both an MBNA Horizon (Forex free and 0.25% cashback) and various MasterCard Forex free options, and Mastercards always comes as better still. Some time Amex would be better for USD exchange rates but the 3% forex fee makes it irrelevant.

I had Revolut in the past and it always came worst or some times matched Fineco, so I doubt it that right now it would be better than HSBC global money. Have you tried a live comparison trying to exchange £100 for example in EUR or USD?