Smart Meters

uk1

Good evening all.

For many years I’ve been badgered to have a smart meter.  Now in preparation for solar I’ve tried to get one.  Having received no replies from Scottish Power I managed to tweet them and have been told my property is now not “smart meter ready”. 

So my questions are what does “not smart ready” mean and what needs to change to be “smart ready”?  And what elements and features of a PV solar system will I not be able to benefit from please? 

Thanks.

DougMLancs

When octopus fitted mine they replaced both the old analogue meters without blinking so that shouldn’t be a barrier. Maybe you get really bad signal in your area? Not sure if SP meter’s use mobile signal or another means to communicate

QrizB

uk1 said:

So my questions are what does “not smart ready” mean and what needs to change to be “smart ready”?  And what elements and features of a PV solar system will I not be able to benefit from please?

"Not smart meter ready" could mean several things.

• Are you in a part of the country where the smart meter doesn't reach?
• Do you have a legacy tariff or metering arrangement that is requires more than trivial re-wiring before a smart meter can be fitted?
• Do you have a three-phase supply that makes smart metering more difficult?

Without a smart meter, you won't have the usual export metering arrangements, and without an export meter you can't be paid for any surplus generation. This isn't to say you can't be paid for export but it will need more work (and expense) on your part.

uk1

Many thanks.

I believe that it is in a non-reachable area.  

It seems ironic to me that so called  Smart Meters cannot be programmed to use available broadband wifi that many households now have.  

70sbudgie

uk1 said:

Many thanks.

I believe that it is in a non-reachable area.  

It seems ironic to me that so called  Smart Meters cannot be programmed to use available broadband wifi that many households now have.  

I understand that it isn't secure enough as it is too easy to hack. It seems strange, but the old mobile network is relatively secure.

uk1

70sbudgie said:

uk1 said:

Many thanks.

I believe that it is in a non-reachable area.  

It seems ironic to me that so called  Smart Meters cannot be programmed to use available broadband wifi that many households now have.  

I understand that it isn't secure enough as it is too easy to hack. It seems strange, but the old mobile network is relatively secure.

To be honest I had considered that but it does seem a little weak and highly unlikely and as you say “strange”.  

A  couple of questions. Apart from not exporting, would I be able to use a service like Octopus that offers battery charging off-peak?   The comment concerning being able to pay to achieve export capability, what would I need to do and at what sort of cost?

My installer implies that they fit smart meters at a charge - have I understood that correctly? 

Thanks.

70sbudgie

Telecoms is definitely not my area, but I believe the difference is to do with 3G signals, how they are encoded and numbers / types of transmitters. Whereas domestic broadband may arrive at your houe on a fibre optic, but it passes through exchange boxes where the fibre can be connected to copper wires. Those boxes are the vulnerable points as it is relatively easy to tap into. How many times have you gone past one of those green boxes at the side of the road / footpath and seen the front off and someone working in it? 

Smart meter data can show a lot about occupancy of a buildong, so it is important that third parties can't access it (and not just from the point of view of tampering with it). That was the thing that put me off smart meters at the beginning, but then my desire to access ToU tariffs outweighted my concerns.

paul991

smart meters are not charged for

alleycat`

70sbudgie said:

Telecoms is definitely not my area, but I believe the difference is to do with 3G signals, how they are encoded and numbers / types of transmitters. Whereas domestic broadband may arrive at your houe on a fibre optic, but it passes through exchange boxes where the fibre can be connected to copper wires. Those boxes are the vulnerable points as it is relatively easy to tap into. How many times have you gone past one of those green boxes at the side of the road / footpath and seen the front off and someone working in it? 

Smart meter data can show a lot about occupancy of a buildong, so it is important that third parties can't access it (and not just from the point of view of tampering with it). That was the thing that put me off smart meters at the beginning, but then my desire to access ToU tariffs outweighted my concerns.

Few thoughts on this.

3G is about to be turned off in many areas so i doubt it's to do with the transmission technology in of itself.

Your Internet data is equally a good source of "occupancy" patterns but, if you're correct, equally vulnerable to tapping. Or dependent on the quality of your ISP's security vulnerable to attack at the far end.

For Mobile networks - Base stations can, hypothetically, be set up by any bad actors in a specific area, there's quite a lot of documentation on this. If this is outgoing traffic that device sets the encryption level...

Physical attacks on Street cabinets could be done at mobile base stations too?

70sbudgie

alleycat` said:

70sbudgie said:

Telecoms is definitely not my area, but I believe the difference is to do with 3G signals, how they are encoded and numbers / types of transmitters. Whereas domestic broadband may arrive at your houe on a fibre optic, but it passes through exchange boxes where the fibre can be connected to copper wires. Those boxes are the vulnerable points as it is relatively easy to tap into. How many times have you gone past one of those green boxes at the side of the road / footpath and seen the front off and someone working in it? 

Smart meter data can show a lot about occupancy of a buildong, so it is important that third parties can't access it (and not just from the point of view of tampering with it). That was the thing that put me off smart meters at the beginning, but then my desire to access ToU tariffs outweighted my concerns.

Few thoughts on this.

3G is about to be turned off in many areas so i doubt it's to do with the transmission technology in of itself.

Your Internet data is equally a good source of "occupancy" patterns but, if you're correct, equally vulnerable to tapping. Or dependent on the quality of your ISP's security vulnerable to attack at the far end.

For Mobile networks - Base stations can, hypothetically, be set up by any bad actors in a specific area, there's quite a lot of documentation on this. If this is outgoing traffic that device sets the encryption level...

Physical attacks on Street cabinets could be done at mobile base stations too?

You've now gone beyond my knowledge, so I can't say anything other than nothing you've said sounds crazy. But it is somewhat worrying!

Will we see another round of issues with smart metering if 3G is turned off?

QrizB

70sbudgie said:

Will we see another round of issues with smart metering if 3G is turned off?

The plan is to replace all the comms hubs before 3G is turned off. The new comms hubs will have 4G modems and will be good for another decade or so.

See https://www.smartme.co.uk/smets-2.html for a very brief discussion of this.