Daughter died intestate and ex boyfriend has all her possessions

MissBojangles

My friend's daughter died earlier this year at age 30 (cancer-related).  She had three children and was living in a housing association property (sole tenant) with her children.  She had an on-off boyfriend who didn't live with her and there were no financial ties between them.  At the time of her death she had an injunction granted against him to prevent him intimidating and harrassing her as he exhibits very controlling behaviour.  Her Mum was the main support for the children and herself and the children spent a great deal of time at her Mum's house, as they had all of their lives.

Within three days of her death, he had moved into her property and taken control of not only the children (he is their natural father and had that right) but also all of her possessions - jewellery, clothes, phone (which he continued to use) and legal documents such as passport, driving licence, etc.

He used the fact that he was present at her death (her parents called him) to register the death and deal with some of her affairs, which is how we assume he managed to transfer the tenancy to himself (if that's what he has done).  He has withdrawn the children from their mother's family and there is no access to the house to retrieve her belongings. We know he has been selling and giving away some of her things.

My friend, as next of kin (children are very young), was going through the process of pulling her daughter's financial affairs together when a stop was put on it because he disputed her doing this.  She consequently applied for probate and has not received this as yet.  A letter has come through to say it is being referred to a specialist team as there are young children involved.

Is there anything that can be done to legally preserve the possessions while she is waiting for probate?  He could dispose of everything before probate is granted...

TIA

Keep_pedalling

Next of kin has no real meaning in legal terms and assuming she died intestate then her children inherit all her assets. It would normally be down to the surviving parent to look after those assets on behalf of them.

Your friend has taken on the administration of the estate and is applying for probate which indicates that her daughter had some significant assets, which will need to be held in trust until the children reach the age of 18 (16 in Scotland). There is little that can be done about the chattels, but once your friend gets probate she can control the other assets as a trustee. Does her daughters estate actually need probate? Most cash only estates don’t.

ellie99

I live in Scotland, so I'm aware the rules may differ.

My solicitor told me that in the situation of a separated unmarried couple with children, if one of the parents dies, the surviving parent is entitled (and indeed expected to in law) to deal with the deceased's estate.
(Solicitor was emphasizing the need for a will to stop this happening).

OP, you don't say which part of the country you're in, but I'm assuming not Scotland when you mention probate. Does anyone know if this rule is Scotland only or country wide?

MissBojangles

No significant assets at all really (around £20k) and she had to apply for probate as the father lodged a dispute which prevented her from sorting out the finances.  He has a history of criminal activity and drug abuse so keen to set up a trust to benefit the children which he cannot take advantage of.

Keep_pedalling

It is a real shame your friend’s daughter did not make a will when she was aware that she had a terminal illness, it would save saved your friend a lot of this additional difficulty. If your friend has not done her own will then she really needs to correct that as a matter of urgency. Does she have other children?

gizmo111

MissBojangles said:

No significant assets at all really (around £20k) and she had to apply for probate as the father lodged a dispute which prevented her from sorting out the finances.  He has a history of criminal activity and drug abuse so keen to set up a trust to benefit the children which he cannot take advantage of.

Is he a safe and appropriate person to be raising the children? That would be my first concern.  

Keep_pedalling

gizmo111 said:

MissBojangles said:

No significant assets at all really (around £20k) and she had to apply for probate as the father lodged a dispute which prevented her from sorting out the finances.  He has a history of criminal activity and drug abuse so keen to set up a trust to benefit the children which he cannot take advantage of.

Is he a safe and appropriate person to be raising the children? That would be my first concern.  

I would certainly hope that social services are closely involved with this.

MissBojangles

Social Services are aware and supposed to monitoring but he has refused help from them and the two allocated case workers have both left post.  I think they are stretched to say the least and they are not very responsive.

We are in England. 

Keep_pedalling said:

It is a real shame your friend’s daughter did not make a will when she was aware that she had a terminal illness, it would save saved your friend a lot of this additional difficulty. If your friend has not done her own will then she really needs to correct that as a matter of urgency. Does she have other children?

She thought she had longer.  It is a shame.  Friend does have a will and it is currently in favour of her surviving son and her deceased daughter.  I'm guessing what you are saying is to update this so if anything happens to her, he doesn't end up with her estate too??

Mojisola

MissBojangles said:

Friend does have a will and it is currently in favour of her surviving son and her deceased daughter.  I'm guessing what you are saying is to update this so if anything happens to her, he doesn't end up with her estate too??

He wouldn't inherit directly but he could end up with controlling the children's inheritance.

A new will which specifies who has control of the children's money would be worth the money.

Malthusian

Is there anything that can be done to legally preserve the possessions while she is waiting for probate?  He could dispose of everything before probate is granted...

Sorry your friend is in this situation. The possessions should be written off; if the boyfriend decides to hand them over for the sake of a quiet life it will be a nice bonus. Practically speaking there is no recourse if he throws them in a skip or sells them (it doesn't sound like any of it is worth the cost of court action or that he would be likely to pay compensation for their loss). The driving licence and passport you can forget about as they are of no value after death.

He has a history of criminal activity and drug abuse so keen to set up a trust to benefit the children which he cannot take advantage of.

Who is the £20k with? Realistically, setting up a trust will only be possible if you can stop him withdrawing the money. Banks will often pay out a sum of £20,000 on presentation of the death certificate without the need for probate.

If he gets the money in his hands it is probably best to write that off as well. 

Did she have any life insurance or pensions? (Even a small workplace pension?) 

She thought she had longer.  It is a shame.  Friend does have a will and it is currently in favour of her surviving son and her deceased daughter.  I'm guessing what you are saying is to update this so if anything happens to her, he doesn't end up with her estate too??

She should update it both for that reason and to consider what happens to her daughter's share. Unless she specified otherwise it would currently pass to her daughter's children in her stead. 

If the Will currently does not specify who would look after the interests of minor heirs and what happens if her children pre-deceased her, then the boyfriend would have control over her entire estate if your friend's son predeceased her and left no children (i.e. everything passed to her three minor grandchildren).

doodling

Hi,

Malthusian said:

[...]

He has a history of criminal activity and drug abuse so keen to set up a trust to benefit the children which he cannot take advantage of.

Who is the £20k with? Realistically, setting up a trust will only be possible if you can stop him withdrawing the money. Banks will often pay out a sum of £20,000 on presentation of the death certificate without the need for probate.

If he gets the money in his hands it is probably best to write that off as well. 

[...]

Assuming the money was held in a bank account before the death and OP's friend obtains probate then writing this off shouldn't be necessary - the bank is obliged to come up with the money; it is not the OP's friend's fault that the bank has been the victim of what is essentially fraud by the ex-bf and has given the money to the wrong person.  The bank can reclaim their losses from the ex-bf (although whether they manage to do this is not the OP's friend's concern).