Police and my rights?

Ectophile

My issue isn't a search warrant per se, but the scale of this warrant when I live alone with no history,

Warrants don't really have a scale.  There aren't big warrants and little warrants.  They get a warrant, and then the police decide how many people they need.

alanfp

A fight with the police is going to be hard work!  You have to remember that when police make their decisions, they are aware that some people they come across lie to them (yes, really) and I think that often colours their approach. Magistrates are aware of that too.
In my opinion, going down the official complaint route will drive you into despair/frustration/anger/hopelessness.  But being bipolar (and maybe pretty much on your own, I'm guessing from your posts) it will affect you more than most people. 
I would just leave it and hope that it doesn't happen again.

alanfp

... and please start locking your door - aside from any unwanted intrusion, your home insurance will be invalid if anyone else comes in and steals your belongings.

Flat_Earther

powerful_Rogue said:

Yes, they can do this as the police would have gone before a magistrate to justify why a search warrant should be issued. Clearly the police and magistrate belived  the information given for the search warrant to be issued.

They may have been able to justify it on paper but it clearly wasn't justified in reality.  The person who was claimed to be selling drugs from the address had been in prison for 8 mths prior to this.

Would you be OK if the Police just barged down your door and said "we think someone was selling drugs from your address 8 months ago?" "And hey-ho, you can fix the damage because we're the Police?"

Of course you wouldn't, so stop being so facetious.

powerful_Rogue

Flat_Earther said:

powerful_Rogue said:

Yes, they can do this as the police would have gone before a magistrate to justify why a search warrant should be issued. Clearly the police and magistrate belived  the information given for the search warrant to be issued.

They may have been able to justify it on paper but it clearly wasn't justified in reality.  The person who was claimed to be selling drugs from the address had been in prison for 8 mths prior to this.

Would you be OK if the Police just barged down your door and said "we think someone was selling drugs from your address 8 months ago?" "And hey-ho, you can fix the damage because we're the Police?"

Of course you wouldn't, so stop being so facetious.

Facetious?

There is nothing incorrect in what I have posted. That is the process. No-one apart from the police and magistrate who issued the warrant know what the intel was. Not sure where you got that the intel was "we think someone was selling drugs from your address 8 months ago?"

"And hey-ho, you can fix the damage because we're the Police?" - Making things up as you go along? Your username explains a lot.

tightauldgit

happymumto2 said:

My issue isn't a search warrant per se, but the scale of this warrant when I live alone with no history, i

I think you've got this exactly backwards in some ways. If a warrant was issued based on suspicion of drug dealing from your address then the police can probably justify the nature of the search - the issue based on what you've said is that the warrant was issued based on false information/negligence by the police. 

Of course we are here on the internet and don't have access to the full information on what's gone on but if its all as you say then I think the key part is what information/evidence the police presented to a judge to get the warrant issued. 

Of course it may well be that the police did nothing wrong but we simply don't know. If you want to pursue it then I think you need to seek legal advice and raise a formal complaint with the police and as others have said maybe contact your MP. 

Although bear in mind that the police do not have to act in a way that seems reasonable to YOU, only in a way that is legal. If you look at it from their side then they have reports of drug-related activity from an address associated with a known convicted drug dealer - even if he is in jail it's not beyond possibility that some of his family or friends are continuing his trade while he's inside. Which is why the specifics of the what was presented to the court to get the warrant are going to matter.  

happymumto2

tightauldgit said:

happymumto2 said:

My issue isn't a search warrant per se, but the scale of this warrant when I live alone with no history, i

I think you've got this exactly backwards in some ways. If a warrant was issued based on suspicion of drug dealing from your address then the police can probably justify the nature of the search - the issue based on what you've said is that the warrant was issued based on false information/negligence by the police. 

Of course we are here on the internet and don't have access to the full information on what's gone on but if its all as you say then I think the key part is what information/evidence the police presented to a judge to get the warrant issued. 

Of course it may well be that the police did nothing wrong but we simply don't know. If you want to pursue it then I think you need to seek legal advice and raise a formal complaint with the police and as others have said maybe contact your MP. 

Although bear in mind that the police do not have to act in a way that seems reasonable to YOU, only in a way that is legal. If you look at it from their side then they have reports of drug-related activity from an address associated with a known convicted drug dealer - even if he is in jail it's not beyond possibility that some of his family or friends are continuing his trade while he's inside. Which is why the specifics of the what was presented to the court to get the warrant are going to matter.  

@tightauldgit yes I believe obtaining the warrant was based on false information (not neccessarily deliberate, but they failed to do a basic check to see where my son was actually residing). As when I told him I lived alone he said they had intelligence that my son was living here and drugs were being sold from the address, and when I said my son was in prison he asked since when. 

While it is not beyond possibility that I could have taken over where he left off, am certain a search of me on their database would show multiple cases of attendance at the station with actual evidence of substances being dealt to a vulnerable minor (as he was at the time). And being mid 50's with no history, I don't know the statistics, but don't think it's an occupation people my age suddenly take up.

All I really wanted was for him to say oh dear we didn't check where your son was, we've carried out this operation out in error, (we are all human and make mistakes), but instead he's changed the story, saying it's now to do with cannabis smoking complaints and implying he'll come back whenever he feels like it. I have no issue with that either as I don't do it, so he can come every day if he likes, but what I can't deal with is having my door put through to do that. Am so embarrassed at what the neighbours must have witnessed, I rarely go out to avoid the neighbours as it is, as I am ashamed of what my son has done, and don't want to be asked where he is, in reality he rarely went out when he was here so doubt they even know he exists. 

I know my son sounds terrible and what he has done is, but prior to his arrest he wasn't on their radar for dealing as he never had. It's not an excuse but he has the emotional age of a 13-14 year old, hadn't left the house for more than an hour a day, in the 3 months we had lived here, insisted on going back to our old area that day, I begged him not to and the rest is history. I controlled all his money because of his issues, I gave him £20 that day, that's all he had on him when he was arrested. Basically he met up with someone he considers a friend (one of those that groomed him in school), caught a train to the nearest city, the other individual booked them into a hotel in both their names (my son had no money to pay for this). The other individual remained in the hotel, and my son was sent out to meet the individuals buying. My house was searched, as was that of the other mother, nothing found in my house, in the other individuals bedroom they found over 6k and significant quantities of cannabis and cocaine. He doesn't lie to me, he told me straight away that yes he had been selling, the money found in the actual hotel room (about £250) wasn't his, and there was a small quantity of cocaine found and a larger amount of cannabis and that wasn't his. 

At initial court hearing the magistrate said he would have had a community order, but because of his rather extensive youth history he had to remand him and send the case to Crown Court. Youth history relates to criminal damage, assault (within the home, he hasn't terrorised the community, he has additional needs and this has been going on since birth, but where as I could handle a toddler, I struggled with a 6 foot teen and would have to call police when I was at significant risk, and they would do victimless prosecutions), and 2 possession of cannabis (personal use amounts not dealing amounts). His on call solicitor said not to worry it was clear he wasn't the "main man" in this.

It took 8 weeks to get to Crown Court, backlogs & Covid etc, day 1 in prison he tells me he is sharing a room with his co-defendant, phoned his solicitor and explained I had major concerns with him being manipulated into altering his story, and shouldn't they be seperated. She said it's normal practice and there was nothing that could be done, I only got to see him once before it got to court, and drummed into him that this other person was not his friend. Gets to court, he appears via video link, and his story has changed, he admits to the dealing, and then claims that the money and substances found in the other persons house were half his. The other individual is several years older, had only come off licence the month before after serving a previous prison sentence, and my son hadn't until February seen him in over a year. He had sent letters to him from prison, which I had intercepted and given to the police, as he was glorifying prison, bragging about his drug use in prison, and offering my son drugs as soon as he got out.

In court it was made out to be some sort of joint business, my son knows right from wrong, he would have known what he did was wrong, but he was used by the other person, to do the dirty work while he stayed safe in the hotel (or so he thought). Did he deserve to go to prison, yes, but after changing his story, he got 32 months, and the other individual 33 months.

I know all this irrelevant to my initial post, I know my son is where he belongs for what he did, but we're not talking about a hardened drug dealer here, it wasn't a way of life for him, drug use yes but not dealing. Some will see him as the scum of the earth, I see the 14 year old with the 1 to 1 in school, top stream, who in a 6 month period went from marks in the 80's and 90's to single figures in all subjects, because of the aforementioned individual who saw my son had zero friends because he is socially inept, and he befriended him, and my son felt accepted and ever since his life has gone down the pan.

Ectophile said:

My issue isn't a search warrant per se, but the scale of this warrant when I live alone with no history,

Warrants don't really have a scale.  There aren't big warrants and little warrants.  They get a warrant, and then the police decide how many people they need.

@Ectophile I should maybe have said the scale of the operation, rather than scale of the warrant, but I don't feel a person living alone with zero history, would require all the manpower sent, or firearms, or battering rams.

Undervalued

MalMonroe said:

Hello, I am appalled that this has happened. And I totally agree with those who say you should raise a formal complaint. 

Sending 8 officers to break into someone's home for no good reason is really going way over the top.

How awful for you to come home to find such a mess and know that they've been inside your property. For absolutely no reason whatsoever. 

The only way to get this sorted really is to make an official complaint.

Just use the information you've used here, you've explained it all very concisely and there's no mistaking the fact that they've done wrong.

It really makes me so cross. The police are supposed to protect us all but sadly they sometimes believe they are entitled to act as they please and cause distress and mayhem.

You only have to look at recent news reports such as -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-63277161

and 

https://www.gmp.police.uk/news/greater-manchester/news/news/2022/october/investigation-underway-after-assault-of-man-outside-chinese-consulate/

to know that some members of our police forces are failing us.

I'm in South Yorkshire, which police force accused Cliff Richard of unspeakable abuse crimes. He was found to be completely innocent and then they had to pay him an undisclosed amount of compensation. That's from we taxpayers.

Hopefully you will also be able to claim some compensation. Please do try. 

Cliff Richard of course had virtually unlimited financial resources to pay lawyers to pursue his complaint and claim for compensation. 

I seem to remember him saying at the time that he had spent far more doing so than he could possibly expect to recoup.

It was a point of principle, which he was in a financial position to pursue and I certainly don't blame him for doing so. Sadly however most people are not in his position.

CBry84

I'm so sorry for your experience. Unfortunately, in my experience at least, the Police will be very obstructive and lie to protect themselves and their own, when they've made mistakes or acted unlawfully. It is that culture of feeling that they are above the law that has led to public trust in them being at rock bottom. Your best route may be the IOPC.