Energy Price Guarantee No Longer 2 years just 6 months at current level

MattMattMattUK

What_time_is_it said:

The government has 3 options as far as I can see:

1. Do nothing. No handouts. No energy support package.
2. Offer a universal support package. Basically, the EPG.
3. Offer a targeted support package.

Liz Truss has backed each of these options in turn in the last couple of months.
It's about time she made her mind up which option she actually believes in.

They have a fourth option which is the one that they should offer, limited but universal support. They should be offering an EPG level of cost for the first number of kWh in each month, phased to take account of seasonality, set at a level to encourage a reduction in usage, so maybe 150-200kWh in summer, 300kWh in winter. 

deano2099

MattMattMattUK said:

What_time_is_it said:

The government has 3 options as far as I can see:

1. Do nothing. No handouts. No energy support package.
2. Offer a universal support package. Basically, the EPG.
3. Offer a targeted support package.

Liz Truss has backed each of these options in turn in the last couple of months.
It's about time she made her mind up which option she actually believes in.

They have a fourth option which is the one that they should offer, limited but universal support. They should be offering an EPG level of cost for the first number of kWh in each month, phased to take account of seasonality, set at a level to encourage a reduction in usage, so maybe 150-200kWh in summer, 300kWh in winter. 

Is that not functionally equivalent to the universal £400 though? With the exception that if you use less than the discounted amount, you don't get it?

MattMattMattUK

deano2099 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

What_time_is_it said:

The government has 3 options as far as I can see:

1. Do nothing. No handouts. No energy support package.
2. Offer a universal support package. Basically, the EPG.
3. Offer a targeted support package.

Liz Truss has backed each of these options in turn in the last couple of months.
It's about time she made her mind up which option she actually believes in.

They have a fourth option which is the one that they should offer, limited but universal support. They should be offering an EPG level of cost for the first number of kWh in each month, phased to take account of seasonality, set at a level to encourage a reduction in usage, so maybe 150-200kWh in summer, 300kWh in winter. 

Is that not functionally equivalent to the universal £400 though? With the exception that if you use less than the discounted amount, you don't get it?

Somewhat, but summer and winter usage should be around 60% of average. The main difference is that anything above that is at market rates, so it encourages users to reduce their usage and reduces the cost to the state. 

mmmmikey

deano2099 said:

Is that not functionally equivalent to the universal £400 though? With the exception that if you use less than the discounted amount, you don't get it?

As you say, probably a toss of a coin as to which is best. One of the more likely scenarios, in my view, is that we'll end up with some kind of blanket payment on the grounds that it is simple to implement (especially because it's already being done) and achieves the broad objective of helping the less well off the most. Maybe it would be possible to "knock some of the sharp corners off" by only giving it on first homes, and finding a better way of dealing with park homes and the like?

Sterlingtimes

The policy is directed at safeguarding the most vulnerable. But what happens to the vulnerable who are not the most vulnerable?

mmmmikey

Sterlingtimes said:

The policy is directed at safeguarding the most vulnerable. But what happens to the vulnerable who are not the most vulnerable?

I guess that's a way of asking how wide the energy support safety net will be cast, and the answer is we simply don't know at the moment. I understand that Martin Lewis is campaigining for support to be given fairly widely reflecting the difficult situation many people are in. But whether that campagin is successul or not, who knows? Personally I hope it's cast quite widely, but if you've been following this thread you'll be aware that that view is not universally held.

ariarnia

Sterlingtimes said:

The policy is directed at safeguarding the most vulnerable. But what happens to the vulnerable who are not the most vulnerable?

thats the situation i worry about. people who dont qualify or dont apply for the right benifits and maybe are on just enough  to manage most of the time but can't just 'efficiency' there way to finding £5k for annual energy when a year ago they might have shopped around for a good fix so only been paying 1k. i think the limit for a lot of benifits is something like 16k. no way can someone no matter how efficient on less than at least 25k just reduce expenditure to cope with bills at that level. thats not even thinking about the way food and fuel has gone up. people need to eat to get to work and to keep there homes damp free at a minimum. the level of support should reflect that and realise theres a much bigger cliff edge than normal between those who have always been seen as 'most vulnerable' and those who might well be quite a bit worse off without any support. 

Ultrasonic

mmmmikey said:

One thing the Government could do again is what they did with the £400. Although this is not what I would call targetted, it does have the effect of giving the less well off a higher % discount off their energy bill

It gives those with smaller bills a bigger percentage discount, which is not the same as the less well off. What it does is give every household (with an electricity account) the same absolute discount.

mmmmikey

Ultrasonic said:

mmmmikey said:

One thing the Government could do again is what they did with the £400. Although this is not what I would call targetted, it does have the effect of giving the less well off a higher % discount off their energy bill

It gives those with smaller bills a bigger percentage discount, which is not the same as the less well off. What it does is give every household (with an electricity account) the same absolute discount.

Yes, agreed, you're absolutely right. It only holds that this benefits the less well off proportionally more than the better off to the extent that the less well off generally have smaller bills. Certainly far from being a perfect assumption but also not a completely unreasonable one either - more along the lines of "best of a bad job" than "ideal solution". The difficulty is that if you try and do means tested targetting you add a lot of administrative cost.

ariarnia

mmmmikey said:

Ultrasonic said:

mmmmikey said:

One thing the Government could do again is what they did with the £400. Although this is not what I would call targetted, it does have the effect of giving the less well off a higher % discount off their energy bill

It gives those with smaller bills a bigger percentage discount, which is not the same as the less well off. What it does is give every household (with an electricity account) the same absolute discount.

Yes, agreed, you're absolutely right. It only holds that this benefits the less well off proportionally more than the better off to the extent that the less well off generally have smaller bills. Certainly far from being a perfect assumption but also not a completely unreasonable one either - more along the lines of "best of a bad job" than "ideal solution". The difficulty is that if you try and do means tested targetting you add a lot of administrative cost.

thats why i think epc should be a element considered. or general area deprevation. less well off people are also more likely to not afford home improvements and new appliances that cut bills so can have disproportionally high bills for their usage. and those in rentals can have no choice at all about appliances and heating. every landlord is required to ensure their property isn't below a set level of epc (so all rentals would have a rating) and i think being in a rented home with an epc below a set point is an indication of being poor at least as much as council tax band is.