Help with my central heating system - please help!

foreversummer

Hi

We had a new fan fitted to our Gloworm Fuelsaver Boiler (conventional type) in October. We also had the system cleaned as the plumber found it difficult to diagnose the problem and thought we had a blockage. Everything was then fine.

Last week we had two new radiators fitted and thermostatic radiator valves put on the radiators in the bedrooms, but have had nothing but problems since with noise.

The first thing we noticed is that if we have the trv in my our daughters bedroom on anything less than 5 we get a noise that sounds like a aeroplane soaring overhead - I mean it really is that loud and seems to come from the boiler. The radiator is also very noisy. So we have been keeping the trv on 5.

However, over the weekend find that we have a whistling/singing sound coming from the boiler, so much so that we thought we had better turn it off.

Now this morning, we have come downstairs to the sound of rattling in the boiler!

I've bled all the radiators again and there was some air in two of them, including the one in my daughters room, but still noise.

I've phoned the plumber who says that he will come and look at the trv in my daughter's room as soon as possible and I've asked him if it is OK to have the heating on in the meantime. He has basically said that if the boiler is on the way out it is on the way out and will just go, so just keep using it!

I'm concerned that it is something that he has done that will harm the boiler, it was certainly not noisy before.

If any of you guys can offer some advice we would greatly appreciate it.

Foreversummer

penrhyn

I'm not a plumber, but my system was doing something like this recently, the engineer diagnosed the problem as 'Kettling' apparently deposits within the heat exchanger in the boiler causing noise. He poured a couple of bottles of Fernox 2 into the system (which I was very sceptical about) but it has quietened the system.
There is no air trapped in the system is there?

http://www.fernox.com/index.php?cccpage=super_boiler_noise_silencer

Canucklehead

Hi

What make of trv? Have a look on the side of the valve can you see an arrow? If it is only pointing one way then the valve is on the wrong end.
The noisy boiler may be overheating . Is the pump speed at 3? (remember you turned it down?) Turn down the boiler stat a little see if that helps.

Corgi Guy.

foreversummer

Hi guys

Thank you for the prompt replies!

Canucklehead - the make is Biflo (or something like that - I am not at home at present). I was wondering about the trv being on the wrong end. I think he has put it on the return end, but they are bi-directional he says. Am I right in thinking that the feed pipe of the raditator is hotter than the return pipe? If so, all the other trvs on the the feed end and this is the only one on the return pipe. Regarding the arrows, there are two on each trv - one vertical and one horizontal. And then I get confused. Which way should they point?

Yes the pump speed is at 3 and the pump sounds fine now. When the boiler gets very noisy it does indeed help to reduce the boiler stat - for a while anyway, then this morning the singing came back on the lower setting.

Are we doing any harm by continuing to use it?

Foreversummer

foreversummer

Hi guys

Thank you for the prompt replies!

Canucklehead - the make is Biflo (or something like that - I am not at home at present). I was wondering about the trv being on the wrong end. I think he has put it on the return end, but they are bi-directional he says. Am I right in thinking that the feed pipe of the raditator is hotter than the return pipe? If so, all the other trvs on the the feed end and this is the only one on the return pipe. Regarding the arrows, there are two on each trv - one vertical and one horizontal. And then I get confused. Which way should they point?

Yes the pump speed is at 3 and the pump sounds fine now. When the boiler gets very noisy it does indeed help to reduce the boiler stat - for a while anyway, then this morning the singing came back on the lower setting.

Are we doing any harm by continuing to use it?

Foreversummer

Canucklehead

HI

Yes the valves will/should work in either flow or return.
If you can turn the boiler stat down far enough to stop the noise in the boiler but still heat the house then give that a try.
Did the plumber have any trouble draining and filling the system to do the rads.
Do you know what inhibitor was put in ? and was it the same make as previously ? or none at all?

Corgi Guy.

foreversummer

Although the valves work on flow and return, do the arrows need to be pointing in a certain direction, ie in the direction of the flow? If so, the radiator in question has the trv on the left-hand side, which I believe to be the return side, but one arrow is pointing right and the other downwards. Does this make any sense?

He didn't have any problems when he did the work, in fact it all appeared to go rather smoothly. Also, I must say that we did not hear any noise until the day after, although this did coincide with a cold snap in the weather which made me turn the boiler stat to the top setting, now that I have these trvs in place.

He did use an inhibitor, but I don't know the name. The previous plumber who cleaned the system in October also used an inhibitor, but again I do not know the name or type.

Maybe I should try the Fernox 2 mentioned by penrhyn and see how things develop.

PS Just phoned home as I am at work tonight, and apparently everything is quiet at present!

Funny how it seems to come & go.

Canucklehead

Hi

Are you now running the boiler with the stat at the setting it was before the rad work?
The arrows mean it will work in either direction. It may be that the air in the system is settling out and your system will calm down.
andrew... the Danfoss valves are the only ones I know of that can be reversed like that.
City plumbing do the Iflo ones in the OP.
My reason for asking about chemicals was that sometime ago there was a problem with TRVs and the rubber part of the valve seating reacting to the inhibitor chemicals the result was they swelled up and jammed. I have heard that a similar problem is out there with motorized valves but you'll never get an answer out of any manufacturer as to the truth.
As ever it's the installer what gets the blame.

Corgi Guy.

babyduck49

Hi I realise this is an old thread I've dragged up but hopefully some of the contributors will still be hanging around.....or there will be new and improved versions!

Basically I have the same issue with my TRVs in that they rattle and crash far too frequently. They've been like that for 3 years and it's never unduly worried me, we now have a young baby though who gets scared witless by the noise!!

I appear to have the following valves on every radiator bar one in the bathroom.

Oh I'm not allowed to post a link....that's not very helpful!! Well anyway it looks like an 'iflo 15mm Angled TRV'

From what I've read in various threads I do now understand the feed and return concept. So I've cranked up the central theremostat and then one by one turned each TRV to zero, let it all cool down and then whacked it up to 5. In that way I have established the feed and return side on each radiator.

I thought the return would always be on the left or right, but no, it all seems pretty random to me. Anyway this is where I get confused as each TRV has 2 arrows on it one pointing down and one pointing right. As mentioned above and according to Canucklehead

'The arrows mean it will work in either direction'

I'm quite happy to believe that but from my testing it appears that the only ones making the noise are those on the return side of the radiator. It could be coincidence but of the 11 radiators with valves it's the 7 that are stuck on the return end that make all the noise, the other 4 make litle to no noise at all.

HELP!!!!

Thanks for any constructive replies