Sheila's Wheels demanded full payment

DullGreyGuy

Jumblebumble said:

400ixl said:

ontheroad1970 said:

What I hate about these arrangement, are that insurance companies will act as debt and judge jury and high executioner.  They cancel the insurance altogether without ensuring that you are demonstrably aware - eg a special delivery letter - not an email as many people use secondary email addresses to prevent spam in their main account - that cover has been cancelled.  This then leads to you getting stopped for having no insurance, something that is impossible to defend as it's an absolute offence - though can be (with difficulty) argued to be significant reasons not to endorse.  

Driving without insurance is a nasty endorsement that can stop you from being able to hire cars from mainstream hire companies.  

You agreed to what email address you used and the communication method. If you don't maintain the monitoring of that email address then that is not their fault. And using a secondary email address is not excuse, you set that method up. Personally I sue a different email address for every company I engage with, all comes into the same interface so no excuse to be missing anything.

That is as bad as making excuses for people who move and don't bother updating their correspondence address with companies they deal with in that way, or their V5 or driving license.

The OP clearly understands the fault lies at the user end and has posted this to remind others there can be consequences. Luckily they were in a position to be able to pay it in full, some may not be without real issues.

You clearly do know not much about email systems if you assume that they are 100% reliable.
There is no reason whatsoever why insurance companies could not send a letter and I agree with @ontheroad1970
The ABI should in my view mandate that insurance companies do so as the consequences of failing to receive a single email are lifelong which is ridiculous.

The ABI is a voluntary organisation and whilst it can make rules for its members members are also free to leave it if they dont like the rules. Similarly the only thing it can do to rule breakers is kick them out. 

No system is 100% reliable and companies should respect customers choices of communication methods. There is a reason why most advise you should never send letter before action etc by the likes of Special Delivery because that then gives the recipient the opportunity to refuse delivery and as such then prove that they didnt receive it meaning if we followed @ontheroad1970's suggestion no insurance could ever be cancelled for non-payment if people are smart enough to refuse to sign for letters after they know they've missed payments. 

We as consumers also have to take responsibility, if we state we want comms by email then you need to check your email inc the junk folder... sensibly add important companies' domains to your safe senders list etc. Personally I would always choose email comms over letters as I travel extensively and can pick up emails from anywhere whereas it could be several weeks between picking up paper correspondence.

user1977

Indout96 said:

You clearly do know not much about email systems if you assume that they are 100% reliable.

There is no reason whatsoever why insurance companies could not send a letter and I agree with @ontheroad1970
The ABI should in my view mandate that insurance companies do so as the consequences of failing to receive a single email are lifelong which is ridiculous.

But you must be aware that you have not paid the bill for the last two months so why would they need to inform you at all that they were going to cancel, you haven't paid them

Indeed, trying to give you notice by post might make more sense if it was something you couldn't have known about already, but the situation is something you ought to be aware of (presumably every DD failure generates notifications of some sort anyway?).

Grey_Critic

Of course a very simple way is Check your Bank Account - how do you know you have not been charged twice or had your card cloned. People do need to take responsibility rather than rely on others.

Ectophile

Grey_Critic said:

Of course a very simple way is Check your Bank Account - how do you know you have not been charged twice or had your card cloned. People do need to take responsibility rather than rely on others.

The trouble is, it's not always obvious what's not on a bank statement.

Whenever I get a statement, I go down it, checking that it all looks OK.  If it's a regular bill or somewhere I usually shop, that's fine.  If it's a one-off, then I think back to what I was doing on that day.

What I would never notice is if somebody hadn't billed me for a month or two.

ontheroad1970

DullGreyGuy said:

Jumblebumble said:

400ixl said:

ontheroad1970 said:

What I hate about these arrangement, are that insurance companies will act as debt and judge jury and high executioner.  They cancel the insurance altogether without ensuring that you are demonstrably aware - eg a special delivery letter - not an email as many people use secondary email addresses to prevent spam in their main account - that cover has been cancelled.  This then leads to you getting stopped for having no insurance, something that is impossible to defend as it's an absolute offence - though can be (with difficulty) argued to be significant reasons not to endorse.  

Driving without insurance is a nasty endorsement that can stop you from being able to hire cars from mainstream hire companies.  

You agreed to what email address you used and the communication method. If you don't maintain the monitoring of that email address then that is not their fault. And using a secondary email address is not excuse, you set that method up. Personally I sue a different email address for every company I engage with, all comes into the same interface so no excuse to be missing anything.

That is as bad as making excuses for people who move and don't bother updating their correspondence address with companies they deal with in that way, or their V5 or driving license.

The OP clearly understands the fault lies at the user end and has posted this to remind others there can be consequences. Luckily they were in a position to be able to pay it in full, some may not be without real issues.

You clearly do know not much about email systems if you assume that they are 100% reliable.
There is no reason whatsoever why insurance companies could not send a letter and I agree with @ontheroad1970
The ABI should in my view mandate that insurance companies do so as the consequences of failing to receive a single email are lifelong which is ridiculous.

The ABI is a voluntary organisation and whilst it can make rules for its members members are also free to leave it if they dont like the rules. Similarly the only thing it can do to rule breakers is kick them out. 

No system is 100% reliable and companies should respect customers choices of communication methods. There is a reason why most advise you should never send letter before action etc by the likes of Special Delivery because that then gives the recipient the opportunity to refuse delivery and as such then prove that they didnt receive it meaning if we followed @ontheroad1970's suggestion no insurance could ever be cancelled for non-payment if people are smart enough to refuse to sign for letters after they know they've missed payments. 

We as consumers also have to take responsibility, if we state we want comms by email then you need to check your email inc the junk folder... sensibly add important companies' domains to your safe senders list etc. Personally I would always choose email comms over letters as I travel extensively and can pick up emails from anywhere whereas it could be several weeks between picking up paper correspondence.

The system would show, however that the delivery of the letter had been attempted, but actively refused.  Then cancel away.  There have been numerous reports on pepipoo of people's notifications going to a junk folder.  I check my junk folder from time to time as Apple Mail sometimes puts important mail in the junk folder.  Some people may not.

DullGreyGuy

ontheroad1970 said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Jumblebumble said:

400ixl said:

ontheroad1970 said:

What I hate about these arrangement, are that insurance companies will act as debt and judge jury and high executioner.  They cancel the insurance altogether without ensuring that you are demonstrably aware - eg a special delivery letter - not an email as many people use secondary email addresses to prevent spam in their main account - that cover has been cancelled.  This then leads to you getting stopped for having no insurance, something that is impossible to defend as it's an absolute offence - though can be (with difficulty) argued to be significant reasons not to endorse.  

Driving without insurance is a nasty endorsement that can stop you from being able to hire cars from mainstream hire companies.  

You agreed to what email address you used and the communication method. If you don't maintain the monitoring of that email address then that is not their fault. And using a secondary email address is not excuse, you set that method up. Personally I sue a different email address for every company I engage with, all comes into the same interface so no excuse to be missing anything.

That is as bad as making excuses for people who move and don't bother updating their correspondence address with companies they deal with in that way, or their V5 or driving license.

The OP clearly understands the fault lies at the user end and has posted this to remind others there can be consequences. Luckily they were in a position to be able to pay it in full, some may not be without real issues.

You clearly do know not much about email systems if you assume that they are 100% reliable.
There is no reason whatsoever why insurance companies could not send a letter and I agree with @ontheroad1970
The ABI should in my view mandate that insurance companies do so as the consequences of failing to receive a single email are lifelong which is ridiculous.

The ABI is a voluntary organisation and whilst it can make rules for its members members are also free to leave it if they dont like the rules. Similarly the only thing it can do to rule breakers is kick them out. 

No system is 100% reliable and companies should respect customers choices of communication methods. There is a reason why most advise you should never send letter before action etc by the likes of Special Delivery because that then gives the recipient the opportunity to refuse delivery and as such then prove that they didnt receive it meaning if we followed @ontheroad1970's suggestion no insurance could ever be cancelled for non-payment if people are smart enough to refuse to sign for letters after they know they've missed payments. 

We as consumers also have to take responsibility, if we state we want comms by email then you need to check your email inc the junk folder... sensibly add important companies' domains to your safe senders list etc. Personally I would always choose email comms over letters as I travel extensively and can pick up emails from anywhere whereas it could be several weeks between picking up paper correspondence.

The system would show, however that the delivery of the letter had been attempted, but actively refused.  Then cancel away.  There have been numerous reports on pepipoo of people's notifications going to a junk folder.  I check my junk folder from time to time as Apple Mail sometimes puts important mail in the junk folder.  Some people may not.

Not sure the tracking is that accurate, especially as I keep getting items marked as "left with receptionist" when we dont have a reception let alone a receptionist. Secondly it gives plausible deniability... the policyholder says they are vulnerable to covid so are refusing to sign anything and had no idea there was an issue with their insurance.

Then this is where people need to accept responsibility for their actions... they choose for comms by email (or chose an online only insurer that only communicates by email), they choose to have their email client filter their mail, they choose not to add their insurer as a safe sender and they choose not to check their junk mailbox. But its the insurers fault they didnt see the notice... even had someone complain that they didnt react because they didnt see the email whilst on their 2 months cruise but it wouldnt have happened if we'd sent a letter. Asking how they were getting their postal mail whilst on the cruise... they weren't. Unfortunately we are in a time where everything has to be someone else's fault

Bigphil1474

OP, i used to always pay my car insurance by DD up until a few years ago because i was usually too skint to pay in full. I made a determined effort one year to save up the extra just for car insurance and now pay it off in one go every year, even though I am fortunately not as skint as I used to be. It did make it a lot easier for me, and I saved a bit from not paying any interest. 

ontheroad1970

DullGreyGuy said:

ontheroad1970 said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Jumblebumble said:

400ixl said:

ontheroad1970 said:

What I hate about these arrangement, are that insurance companies will act as debt and judge jury and high executioner.  They cancel the insurance altogether without ensuring that you are demonstrably aware - eg a special delivery letter - not an email as many people use secondary email addresses to prevent spam in their main account - that cover has been cancelled.  This then leads to you getting stopped for having no insurance, something that is impossible to defend as it's an absolute offence - though can be (with difficulty) argued to be significant reasons not to endorse.  

Driving without insurance is a nasty endorsement that can stop you from being able to hire cars from mainstream hire companies.  

You agreed to what email address you used and the communication method. If you don't maintain the monitoring of that email address then that is not their fault. And using a secondary email address is not excuse, you set that method up. Personally I sue a different email address for every company I engage with, all comes into the same interface so no excuse to be missing anything.

That is as bad as making excuses for people who move and don't bother updating their correspondence address with companies they deal with in that way, or their V5 or driving license.

The OP clearly understands the fault lies at the user end and has posted this to remind others there can be consequences. Luckily they were in a position to be able to pay it in full, some may not be without real issues.

You clearly do know not much about email systems if you assume that they are 100% reliable.
There is no reason whatsoever why insurance companies could not send a letter and I agree with @ontheroad1970
The ABI should in my view mandate that insurance companies do so as the consequences of failing to receive a single email are lifelong which is ridiculous.

The ABI is a voluntary organisation and whilst it can make rules for its members members are also free to leave it if they dont like the rules. Similarly the only thing it can do to rule breakers is kick them out. 

No system is 100% reliable and companies should respect customers choices of communication methods. There is a reason why most advise you should never send letter before action etc by the likes of Special Delivery because that then gives the recipient the opportunity to refuse delivery and as such then prove that they didnt receive it meaning if we followed @ontheroad1970's suggestion no insurance could ever be cancelled for non-payment if people are smart enough to refuse to sign for letters after they know they've missed payments. 

We as consumers also have to take responsibility, if we state we want comms by email then you need to check your email inc the junk folder... sensibly add important companies' domains to your safe senders list etc. Personally I would always choose email comms over letters as I travel extensively and can pick up emails from anywhere whereas it could be several weeks between picking up paper correspondence.

The system would show, however that the delivery of the letter had been attempted, but actively refused.  Then cancel away.  There have been numerous reports on pepipoo of people's notifications going to a junk folder.  I check my junk folder from time to time as Apple Mail sometimes puts important mail in the junk folder.  Some people may not.

Not sure the tracking is that accurate, especially as I keep getting items marked as "left with receptionist" when we dont have a reception let alone a receptionist. Secondly it gives plausible deniability... the policyholder says they are vulnerable to covid so are refusing to sign anything and had no idea there was an issue with their insurance.

Then this is where people need to accept responsibility for their actions... they choose for comms by email (or chose an online only insurer that only communicates by email), they choose to have their email client filter their mail, they choose not to add their insurer as a safe sender and they choose not to check their junk mailbox. But its the insurers fault they didnt see the notice... even had someone complain that they didnt react because they didnt see the email whilst on their 2 months cruise but it wouldnt have happened if we'd sent a letter. Asking how they were getting their postal mail whilst on the cruise... they weren't. Unfortunately we are in a time where everything has to be someone else's fault

Since you work in the industry, perhaps your otherwise good judgement is coloured.  I just think the punishment and consequences outweigh the little amount of care that the insurance companies make in ensuring the policy holder is fully aware they have no cover.  It's almost nonchalant.

Grey_Critic

Perhaps it is us who are nonchalant - We do seem to fall for the hype - **We will do it for you** so many are trusting souls that when it goes wrong the response is very Victor Meldrew - I Don't Believe It!!

Better that we learn from not only our own mistakes but those of others. Maybe reading topics such as this some people might be prompted to check their Spam folders on a regular basis or reconcile our bank accounts. But then again some won't.