Fire - not my fault at premises below

Bubble2020

Hi

I hope you are all well.

There was a fire in the commercial premises below where I live. The fire was the fault of the business and not mine. The contents of my place have been destroyed with soot and smoke. 

Fire brigade said that I was lucky not to have been at the property at the time (I was on holiday). As the fire started  at 4am. My smoke alarms did not go off and the commercial premises below me has no fire alarm.

I have no contents insurance and have been told that I should be able to claim the money for my contents from the business owner.

The business owner rents the property from the same landlord I do so I'm confused as to who I should approach about replacement of my things, the business owner where the fire started or the landlord who owns the property.

As I'm not insured, I have noone "fighting" my corner. Please don't remind me that I should have had insurance. I am well aware of that fact now.

I am also stating on friends sofas at the moment as the council have been unable to house me temporarily and the landlord says that their policy does not cover temporary accommodation costs for me.

Can anyone please help me before I loose any more sleep and my mind.

Thank you 

Aretnap

Who had told you that you should be able to claim from the business owner, and on what grounds did they say that you could?

Generally to claim from anyone, you will have to show that the loss you suffered was the result of that person's negligence. Negligence means that they failed to take the care that would be expected of a reasonable person (or a reasonable business) - the fact that the fire started in their premesis doesn't automatically make them liable.

For example, if the fire started as a result of an electrical fault, and the business had carried all the electrical safety checks that are required of a business, you would be unlikely to have any grounds to claim against them. On the other hand if they were keeping petrol cans next to a gas stove, that would be obvious negligence. In between the two scenarios is a grey area with room for argument.

So you say that the fire was their fault - what exactly do you mean by that?

Bubble2020

Artnap thank you for your response.

Please bear in mind that I have (fortunately) never been in this situation, so I am asking for help.

When I say that the fire was their fault, I mean that it didn't start at my premises, it started at their premises.

I understand that a fire inspection by their insurance company has happened to try and discover why the fire started.

I am very confused and upset at the moment to have lost possessions and be homeless so any advice would be great, thank you.

Torry_Quine

As Aretnap says unless the fire was caused by negligence then you've no claim. All you can do do is wait and see what the result of the investigation is.

GrumpyDil

Although I would expect your landlord to be helping sort out your accomodation, which is why I have insurance cover on my landlord insurance for just that situation. 

[Deleted User]

Torry_Quine said:

As Aretnap says unless the fire was caused by negligence then you've no claim. All you can do do is wait and see what the result of the investigation is.

That's not all they can do.

They could contact the business owner's insurance company and tell them that they intend to claim for their losses. See what the insurance company says.

They could ask for interim payments to help cover costs, before a full settlement.

It's worth asking, they can only say no.

HampshireH

Bubble2020 said:

Hi

I hope you are all well.

There was a fire in the commercial premises below where I live. The fire was the fault of the business and not mine. The contents of my place have been destroyed with soot and smoke. 

Fire brigade said that I was lucky not to have been at the property at the time (I was on holiday). As the fire started  at 4am. My smoke alarms did not go off and the commercial premises below me has no fire alarm.

I have no contents insurance and have been told that I should be able to claim the money for my contents from the business owner.

The business owner rents the property from the same landlord I do so I'm confused as to who I should approach about replacement of my things, the business owner where the fire started or the landlord who owns the property.

As I'm not insured, I have noone "fighting" my corner. Please don't remind me that I should have had insurance. I am well aware of that fact now.

I am also stating on friends sofas at the moment as the council have been unable to house me temporarily and the landlord says that their policy does not cover temporary accommodation costs for me.

Can anyone please help me before I loose any more sleep and my mind.

Thank you 

I don't understand why your smoke alarms didn't go off unless they just weren triggered at that point due to there being no smoke to do so.

Seems very non compliant for the commercial unit not to have one. Especially with a residential premises above. 

Not sure how being 4am stopped them going off.

Sadly this is the whole concept of contents insurance. It's the very reason it exists. It's unlikely anyone will compensate you for your belongings. It's a very emotional and overwhelming time and I appreciate this isn't what you want to hear.

Aretnap

[Deleted User] said:

Torry_Quine said:

As Aretnap says unless the fire was caused by negligence then you've no claim. All you can do do is wait and see what the result of the investigation is.

That's not all they can do.

They could contact the business owner's insurance company and tell them that they intend to claim for their losses. See what the insurance company says.

They could ask for interim payments to help cover costs, before a full settlement.

It's worth asking, they can only say no.

Interim payments would only be on the table if the insurance company accepts that their customer is liable for the damage in the first place - which they are unlikely to do if the cause of the fire has not been established.

As you say the worst they can do is say no... but if they do the OP's options are quite limited and he needs to be prepared for the possibility that he will get no compensation for his possessions.

Bubble2020

Hampshire H, I put the fact it was 4am because if I had been in the apartment I would have been in bed. The fact that it was 4am had nothing to do with the fire alarms not going off, it's the poor way I wrote it. Everything is covered in soot/smoke.

The commercial premises below me did not have a fire alarm, they have to me this. 

I might just have to "suck it up" and face the loss. It seems highly unfair that this would be the case. But that's life.

Rigolith The landlord said that their insurance only covered them for loss of rent. They have said their insurance offers nothing to assist me. 

It did make me wonder why they had buildings insurance at all.

Aretnap

Bubble2020 said:

Rigolith The landlord said that their insurance only covered them for loss of rent. They have said their insurance offers nothing to assist me. 

It did make me wonder why they had buildings insurance at all.

The general principle is that you buy insurance to protect yourself and your property - not to protect other people. If other people want to protect their own property, the onus is generally on them to insure it themselves.

So the landlord has buildings insurance to protect the building - his buildings insurance will cover the repairs to the building, which otherwise he'd have to pay for himself. It will also usually cover other losses incurred by the landlord due to the fire (like lost rent). But not losses incurred by the tenant, unless they are losses that the landlord would otherwise have to pay for himself.

Your rental agreement should cover what happens if the flat is uninhabitable through no fault of yours or the landlord. Sometimes it will just say that you do not have to pay rent while you can't live there; other times it will make the landlord responsible for providing alternative accommodation. If the landlord IS responsible for providing alternative accommodation then that's something that might well be covered by his insurance as it's an expense that he has to incur. From what you say it sounds unlikely, but it is with checking. I see from your earlier posts that you're in Northern Ireland so the laws protecting tenants may be different to those in England - Citizens Advice or the NI equivalent might be able to give you more help with any rights that we've missed.

Smithcom

Aretnap said:

Bubble2020 said:

Rigolith The landlord said that their insurance only covered them for loss of rent. They have said their insurance offers nothing to assist me. 

It did make me wonder why they had buildings insurance at all.

The general principle is that you buy insurance to protect yourself and your property - not to protect other people. If other people want to protect their own property, the onus is generally on them to insure it themselves.

So the landlord has buildings insurance to protect the building - his buildings insurance will cover the repairs to the building, which otherwise he'd have to pay for himself. It will also usually cover other losses incurred by the landlord due to the fire (like lost rent). But not losses incurred by the tenant, unless they are losses that the landlord would otherwise have to pay for himself.

Your rental agreement should cover what happens if the flat is uninhabitable through no fault of yours or the landlord. Sometimes it will just say that you do not have to pay rent while you can't live there; other times it will make the landlord responsible for providing alternative accommodation. If the landlord IS responsible for providing alternative accommodation then that's something that might well be covered by his insurance as it's an expense that he has to incur. From what you say it sounds unlikely, but it is with checking. I see from your earlier posts that you're in Northern Ireland so the laws protecting tenants may be different to those in England - Citizens Advice or the NI equivalent might be able to give you more help with any rights that we've missed.

  Your ability to recover your costs from the premises below will depend on establishing a legal 'tort' has been committed by them (usually negligence, but could also be related to the laws of nuisance).

If the commercial premises are accepting liability (unlikely), you may have a fairly easy journey to get your money back for your losses.   If it was a pure accident, not involving negligence/nuisance, your loss will rest with you.

You may need to consider a solicitor.   You may need to do some investigations to see whether a solicitor will be a good use of money, in relation to the cause of the fire.  What have the fire brigade said?   Maybe request a copy of their report? (at a cost)

Ultimately, it will be the commercial tenant/their Public Liability insurers that you will need to liaise with, either directly or via your solicitor if you decide to appoint one.

I can understand why you didnt purchase your own Contents insurance, as the building does not belong to you.    But it was also naive, and you will need to decide the best way forward from here.

Keep us updated, and we'll try and assist as best we can

SC