Advice for a young jobseeker

Civic2056

Ath_Wat said:

Civic2056 said:

Ath_Wat said:

If you are told you are walking away from people in mid conversation, then is not possible for you, autism or no, to say "In future I will always say to anyone I am having a conversation with  "Is that ok, are we done?" before walking away?"  I am no autism expert but I can't see how it would prevent that. 
That would go over a lot better than suggesting everyone uses your name every sentence, something they couldn't possibly enforce.

I don't know, the suggestion I gave to them was from a professional who advises Autistic people in the workplace. 

Well, what about my suggestion.  That was something you could do instead of relying on everyone else to having to remember something.  Is it something you could do?

I guess I could try, but then that comes across as a bit odd (although i suppose if i then make them aware of the diagnosis etc). But reasonable adjustments to my understanding are things the employer can do rather than the employee. Of course it can work differently, so for instance, one of the recommendations for autistic employees with reasonable adjustments is they have more breaks. So you could start a little earlier to accomodate another break. 

strawb_shortcake

Civic2056 said:

elsien said:

Have you sat down with someone who knows you well and done a proper skills analysis? 
Being passionate about something isn’t enough. Lots of people have passions that wouldn’t work for them as a full time job for various reasons. 

I’m also not sure that you’re fully appreciating the impact your body language etc may be having and the impact this will have on jobs such as the police. I’m not saying it’s impossible - I was watching Ambulance the other week and there was a paramedic with an autism diagnosis who seemed to be doing a fine job. But your posts have been about how employers should accommodate you, and as you have found, that only goes so far. Some accommodations will be a step too far.

An audit of your strengths and less good areas might help you to target careers more effectively. You will benefit from someone who will be upfront with you, to do that. 

For example, you’ve not properly said (or not in a way that I’ve understood anyway) why your computer business account has been suspended? Is that something that could have been forseeable?

I changed my phone number, They suspended it like a day after and have been unable to get it back. Before that they weren't even displaying half the reviews people were putting on there. There's no contact number for google just an email which they never reply. It's out of my hands. 

Ultimately, I'm not aware of how my condition may manifest in a job until I start, and I may do things subsconsciously I'm not aware of. For example, myself and many oither autistic people find it difficult to have phone calls, and I often hang up on someone before they're finished. I was never really aware I did this until someone pointed it out to me. 

But autistic police officers are far from being small in numbers, there's even a National Police Autistic Association, and a lot of it is well suited to autistic people because of the routine; clear rules and hirearchy. I think this was partly why I excelled in school but struggled with univeristy where I was expected to work independently and had lack of supervision. In the police, for starters for the first two years you're on probation, and in the force I've applied you're always paired with someone as a matter of routine anyway. 

The army is also similar, but in what seems extremely discriminatory in 2022, autistic and adhd people are barred from serving, which makes zero to no sense. That said in that environment bullying is rife and also with my dyspraxia, i can struggle with coordination. 

"Discrimination" against some disabilities and illnesses in the armed forces I'd say is overall a good thing. The safety of you and those you'd be serving with is paramount.

Regardless of your role within any of the armed services you are first and foremost a soldier that is highly likely to be involved in armed combat during your career, having barring on some people joining a fully rationale and sensible decision. 

elsien

Civic2056 said:

Ath_Wat said:

Civic2056 said:

Ath_Wat said:

If you are told you are walking away from people in mid conversation, then is not possible for you, autism or no, to say "In future I will always say to anyone I am having a conversation with  "Is that ok, are we done?" before walking away?"  I am no autism expert but I can't see how it would prevent that. 
That would go over a lot better than suggesting everyone uses your name every sentence, something they couldn't possibly enforce.

I don't know, the suggestion I gave to them was from a professional who advises Autistic people in the workplace. 

Well, what about my suggestion.  That was something you could do instead of relying on everyone else to having to remember something.  Is it something you could do?

I guess I could try, but then that comes across as a bit odd (although i suppose if i then make them aware of the diagnosis etc). But reasonable adjustments to my understanding are things the employer can do rather than the employee. Of course it can work differently, so for instance, one of the recommendations for autistic employees with reasonable adjustments is they have more breaks. So you could start a little earlier to accomodate another break. 

You wouldn't be doing it for the employer. You'd be doing it for you to help maintain good working relationships and making sure that you were getting all the information you need from conversations. I would be fine with someone clarifying with me in that way.
My team has a lot of neurodiverse team members, and if someone says to me "can we do it this way because...." it's quite helpful for both of us. 

Marcon

Have you tried https://www.princes-trust.org.uk

Civic2056

annabanana82 said:

Civic2056 said:

elsien said:

Have you sat down with someone who knows you well and done a proper skills analysis? 
Being passionate about something isn’t enough. Lots of people have passions that wouldn’t work for them as a full time job for various reasons. 

I’m also not sure that you’re fully appreciating the impact your body language etc may be having and the impact this will have on jobs such as the police. I’m not saying it’s impossible - I was watching Ambulance the other week and there was a paramedic with an autism diagnosis who seemed to be doing a fine job. But your posts have been about how employers should accommodate you, and as you have found, that only goes so far. Some accommodations will be a step too far.

An audit of your strengths and less good areas might help you to target careers more effectively. You will benefit from someone who will be upfront with you, to do that. 

For example, you’ve not properly said (or not in a way that I’ve understood anyway) why your computer business account has been suspended? Is that something that could have been forseeable?

I changed my phone number, They suspended it like a day after and have been unable to get it back. Before that they weren't even displaying half the reviews people were putting on there. There's no contact number for google just an email which they never reply. It's out of my hands. 

Ultimately, I'm not aware of how my condition may manifest in a job until I start, and I may do things subsconsciously I'm not aware of. For example, myself and many oither autistic people find it difficult to have phone calls, and I often hang up on someone before they're finished. I was never really aware I did this until someone pointed it out to me. 

But autistic police officers are far from being small in numbers, there's even a National Police Autistic Association, and a lot of it is well suited to autistic people because of the routine; clear rules and hirearchy. I think this was partly why I excelled in school but struggled with univeristy where I was expected to work independently and had lack of supervision. In the police, for starters for the first two years you're on probation, and in the force I've applied you're always paired with someone as a matter of routine anyway. 

The army is also similar, but in what seems extremely discriminatory in 2022, autistic and adhd people are barred from serving, which makes zero to no sense. That said in that environment bullying is rife and also with my dyspraxia, i can struggle with coordination. 

"Discrimination" against some disabilities and illnesses in the armed forces I'd say is overall a good thing. The safety of you and those you'd be serving with is paramount.

Regardless of your role within any of the armed services you are first and foremost a soldier that is highly likely to be involved in armed combat during your career, having barring on some people joining a fully rationale and sensible decision. 

How does being autistic make you "un-safe"? There's no logic for that. I can see potentially why ADHD might be an issue but providing you're medicated, how is it any different to say taking insulin for diabetes (i'm not sure about this in the army but i can't imagine its illegal). Seems to me it smacks of the same laws that forbade gays from being in the army. 

In Israel, they actually have an army unit specifically for autistic people because they know they are very good at spotting things that neurotypicals miss.

Also it doesn't make sense, because there probably are autistic soldiers or ones with adhd in the army but just aren't diagnosed, so whats the difference between someone having asd but no diagnosis and one having a diagnosis? It doesn't change anything, you're still autistic either way. 

This army captain with years of good service in the army was kicked out the moment he was diagnosed. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/armed-forces-cruel-rule-sees-23931389

I thought this can't be compatible with the equality act but i've just seen the army is exempt. Which seems problematic on so many different levels, but then again, it was only 20 years ago that gay people were forbade from being soldiers.

Ath_Wat

Civic2056 said:

Ath_Wat said:

Civic2056 said:

Ath_Wat said:

If you are told you are walking away from people in mid conversation, then is not possible for you, autism or no, to say "In future I will always say to anyone I am having a conversation with  "Is that ok, are we done?" before walking away?"  I am no autism expert but I can't see how it would prevent that. 
That would go over a lot better than suggesting everyone uses your name every sentence, something they couldn't possibly enforce.

I don't know, the suggestion I gave to them was from a professional who advises Autistic people in the workplace. 

Well, what about my suggestion.  That was something you could do instead of relying on everyone else to having to remember something.  Is it something you could do?

I guess I could try, but then that comes across as a bit odd (although i suppose if i then make them aware of the diagnosis etc). But reasonable adjustments to my understanding are things the employer can do rather than the employee. Of course it can work differently, so for instance, one of the recommendations for autistic employees with reasonable adjustments is they have more breaks. So you could start a little earlier to accomodate another break. 

Do you think it is more odd than asking everyone else to constantly use your name?

Do you think it is a reasonable adjustment for the employer to ask everyone else to do something if the problem could be solved by just you doing something that is within your capabilities and no more effort for you than it is for everybody else?

strawb_shortcake

Civic2056 said:

annabanana82 said:

Civic2056 said:

elsien said:

Have you sat down with someone who knows you well and done a proper skills analysis? 
Being passionate about something isn’t enough. Lots of people have passions that wouldn’t work for them as a full time job for various reasons. 

I’m also not sure that you’re fully appreciating the impact your body language etc may be having and the impact this will have on jobs such as the police. I’m not saying it’s impossible - I was watching Ambulance the other week and there was a paramedic with an autism diagnosis who seemed to be doing a fine job. But your posts have been about how employers should accommodate you, and as you have found, that only goes so far. Some accommodations will be a step too far.

An audit of your strengths and less good areas might help you to target careers more effectively. You will benefit from someone who will be upfront with you, to do that. 

For example, you’ve not properly said (or not in a way that I’ve understood anyway) why your computer business account has been suspended? Is that something that could have been forseeable?

I changed my phone number, They suspended it like a day after and have been unable to get it back. Before that they weren't even displaying half the reviews people were putting on there. There's no contact number for google just an email which they never reply. It's out of my hands. 

Ultimately, I'm not aware of how my condition may manifest in a job until I start, and I may do things subsconsciously I'm not aware of. For example, myself and many oither autistic people find it difficult to have phone calls, and I often hang up on someone before they're finished. I was never really aware I did this until someone pointed it out to me. 

But autistic police officers are far from being small in numbers, there's even a National Police Autistic Association, and a lot of it is well suited to autistic people because of the routine; clear rules and hirearchy. I think this was partly why I excelled in school but struggled with univeristy where I was expected to work independently and had lack of supervision. In the police, for starters for the first two years you're on probation, and in the force I've applied you're always paired with someone as a matter of routine anyway. 

The army is also similar, but in what seems extremely discriminatory in 2022, autistic and adhd people are barred from serving, which makes zero to no sense. That said in that environment bullying is rife and also with my dyspraxia, i can struggle with coordination. 

"Discrimination" against some disabilities and illnesses in the armed forces I'd say is overall a good thing. The safety of you and those you'd be serving with is paramount.

Regardless of your role within any of the armed services you are first and foremost a soldier that is highly likely to be involved in armed combat during your career, having barring on some people joining a fully rationale and sensible decision. 

How does being autistic make you "un-safe"? There's no logic for that. I can see potentially why ADHD might be an issue but providing you're medicated, how is it any different to say taking insulin for diabetes (i'm not sure about this in the army but i can't imagine its illegal). Seems to me it smacks of the same laws that forbade gays from being in the army. 

In Israel, they actually have an army unit specifically for autistic people because they know they are very good at spotting things that neurotypicals miss.

Also it doesn't make sense, because there probably are autistic soldiers or ones with adhd in the army but just aren't diagnosed, so whats the difference between someone having asd but no diagnosis and one having a diagnosis? It doesn't change anything, you're still autistic either way. 

This army captain with years of good service in the army was kicked out the moment he was diagnosed. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/armed-forces-cruel-rule-sees-23931389

I thought this can't be compatible with the equality act but i've just seen the army is exempt. Which seems problematic on so many different levels, but then again, it was only 20 years ago that gay people were forbade from being soldiers.

I specifically never made a reference to any individual illness or disability as it varies so much. 
By your own admission you are restless, a soldier may be required to remain very still and quiet for many hours, so this may not be compatible with yourself. 
There will be many traits on the autistic spectrum that aren't compatible with soldier life. 
There is already talk about the benefits that autistic people could bring to the armed forces but these changes take time

MalMonroe

Hi, I've read this thread with interest and I really think that you have a great talent for writing and putting forward your point of view eloquently. Is that something you'd like to take further? Somewhere like your local council? I don't know why I thought that but it just popped into my head! I know that at my own local council you can start off as an apprentice - not just in physical work but in all kinds of administrative work as well. Where I live they are often advertising for apprentices - they seem to love to teach people while they pay them. Is that something that would appeal to you? (Sorry for asking so many questions.)

You managed to get yourself a place on a politics and international studies university course in the first place, no matter that you left. That's something you just brushed over - but really it's a great achievement. Don't think you failed anything because of that, many students find that the course they are on is not what they want to do.

You could have a look at your local council website to see what, if anything, they offer. The great thing about being an apprentice is that although the pay isn't fantastic (in fact probably pretty darn poor) at the outset, you do get a salary. And probably you get serious consideration for a job with them at the end of your training period. After all, they don't want to have to pay for training if people are just going to leave when it finishes. Plus, you have the opportunity to work in several different areas and departments, if you wish, so you get a good all round experience.

Even if not your council, other places also have apprenticeships or training opportunities. It's really worth a look. Or a quick google. 

I have to agree with some of the people commenting on here that I don't think the police would be a great career for you. My brother joined years ago because he had always wanted to be a cop, as he thought. Turned out that he was really just obsessed with the letter of the law, rather than with enforcing it. So he left the cops and did a law degree instead and went in to local government, where he ended up working for Home Office. Not saying that'd be for you but just an example of what people think they want to do can be a little skewed. 

Being a cop, he found, wasn't a regular occupation because no day was ever the same. And it was dangerous - some of the people he came into contact with were really awful - worse than antisocial - spitting on him (a very regular occurrence), punching him, on one occasion trying to stab him and hit him on the head with a brick. He ended up in A and E that time, and he was glad when he left.

So rather than a life of policing, I offer my alternative suggestions. I actually also have a very good friend who was diagnosed with autism at the age of 61. I met her at uni when we were mature students and she graduated with a first class degree. I may be naive but I do not think of autism as a disability although I know there are different categories on the spectrum. Another friend has twins with autism and they are only 10 but they are managing in a mainstream school.

I really believe that a good employer will see your abilities and your potential, rather than anything else.  

I wish you all the very best for the future and hope that I've provided just a little something for you to think about.

JCS1

@MalMonroe apprenticeships are often funded by the apprentice levy now

DanDare999

Savvy_Sue said:

Civic2056 said:

Looking back on this, the employer basically broke the law - they suggested that they did not need to provide a lift for disabled employees if they did not have any (which anyone can tell you is factually and legally incorrect), and thus they didn't have to provide adjustments for me as an autistic employee. I declared i had autism; they suggested "bad body language" was one of the reasons for me being put in this position. I did suggest a reasonable adjustment could be to address me by name, and maybe inform the other employees of my diagnosis with my permission so they could understand, but apparently this wasn't acceptable to them.

I'm going to respond to this bit, because I think you are the one who is factually and legally incorrect. An employer is not obliged to provide a lift for a disabled employee. An employer is obliged to consider 'reasonable adjustments'. Installing a lift may not be reasonable, especially as it's almost certainly not 'just' a lift which will be needed - you can't get a wheelchair into any of our loos at work, for example, so the fact that you can't get to the floor they're on is hardly a hindrance. There's no easy way to install a lift in what was a terraced house, and the kitchen is inaccessible too. 

Our local cinema has prominent signs on the website pointing out that it is not accessible to wheelchairs. The building is historic, and installing one would not be feasible or affordable, therefore not reasonable to require that it is done. The cinema remains inaccessible to patrons and employees who can't manage those stairs. 

I can't comment on whether or not the adjustments you wanted for your autism were reasonable or not. However, until you've been with an employer for two years, they can dismiss you for pretty much any reason. I think you'd be hard pressed to show you were dismissed 'just' because of your disability. Also, had you told them about it before this meeting? Once an employer has decided that it's just not working out (which is all they need to say), they're unlikely to change their minds if a previously undisclosed disability is raised. 

I'm also unclear about whether this is your most recent employer, or the one before. 

As to things you could consider. You say you'd like to be good at retail - have you thought of cinemas and theatres? Yes, it will still be boring but you might find the interaction with people easier because you're not so actively needing to 'sell' to them: they've come to your venue because they've decided to do X, all YOU have to do is make them feel welcome and sell them popcorn etc. 

Doing something you're passionate about may well be a key, but it's not always completely straightforward, because as well as 'the thing you're passionate about', you also need to do self-promotion, keep accounts, do tax returns and tedious things like that ... 

One of mine was flagged with Asperger Syndrome at secondary school, and had some similar issues. He managed through school with just extra time for exams, but needed more support in the form of a mentor at University. After Uni he said he wanted to try self-employment, to see if he could be self-motivated: I could have answered that for him, but it was important he should give it a go. I'm not even sure what he was doing: I'm sure he was very good at it, the self-promotion not so much. Anyway, he then got a job he heard about through one of his Uni friends, didn't enjoy it but it paid the bills. He reduced his hours to give himself time for HIS passion, first to four days pw, then to three days pw. Then he got a chance to travel for a couple of months, and just ditched the job: hasn't looked back. 

I think it's worked better for him second time around because he now gets help with the things he's not good at: an accountant, musicians, artists, a publicist - and he can get on with designing puzzle games. Plus he's older, and better able to plough on with really boring stuff when necessary. 

Civic2056 said:

I've networked with local high-net worth individuals in the property development industry, and one or two councillors. As it happens they wanted me to become a councillor, but that's not a paid job and i withdrew because i still want to be in the police and that's obviously incompatible (you cant do the two even if you wanted, and quite rightly, police shouldn't be involved in politics). 

May not be a paid job, but did you check what the basic allowance is? I'd say it's not ungenerous, definitely do-able if you could work part-time or supplement it with self-employment. Not that I'd ever want to suggest doing it for money, and I'm not sure how predictable it would be.

Civic2056 said:

I went for a degree apprenticeship with a national housebuilder in a town planning role and got a second interview, but they went for someone else in the end.

Did you get feedback? Did you apply to others? It may take more than one attempt. 

Civic2056 said:

I have my police medical next week. Once again, career limbo. I've set my expectations very low for it because I know from my experience before (different force though) what they can be like. I should also put it for the record: yes, i know its a challenging job, but i want a challenging job. It's the only job I've really ever had an interest in going into. 

Tried approaching property developers and councils but basically none of them accept speculative CVs; even for work experience, none have replied. I feel if i went to univeristy and got a degree, say in town planning, it would be useless if i didn't become a town planner, and obviously i'd need to find a job hiring town planners. I also don't know how different my experience will be from last time, if the ADHD meds can be that effective. Same f or retail - almost all jobs i see advertised, at least, those that pay by the hour, are in retail, and whilst it's a job I'd love to be good at, I haven't been good at it from past experience and found it boring. Also, with zero hour contracts and the like, and retailers usually constantly changing the hours their employees work, its not good for an autistic person who doesn't like their routine being changed too much. I am quite spontaneous so not as routine dependent as some autistic people, but I prefer just to have set, fixed start and finish times etc.

In the police? Nope. I don't know how far in advance shift patterns are allocated, nor how 'fixed' they are, but you definitely won't have fixed finish times, ever. 

Police regs state: An officer should know for three months ahead their rest days, and the start and end times of their tour of duty. These should not be changed except for exigencies of duty. 

Given the state of the Government and the country's finance at the moment fixed finish time will be rigorous adhered to.