FOS remit excludes complaint handling

Birdsnest451

After a year Ithe Financial Ombudsman has rejected two of my complaints that Lloyds and Halifax failed to provide an adequate response on the basis that complaint handling is outside their remit.

"Our investigator noted that we don’t have the powers to consider complaint handling in its own right because it isn’t an activity that’s regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. As we can’t look at the way Lloyds dealt with Mr B’s complaint, including how it contacted him, I’m not going to comment further in this decision."

After lockdown finished in April 2021 I made attempts to pay for a book using contactless cards which has worked without any problems up to that time.  Three out of my four cards failed with the reader displaying the message Enter PIN.  This was embarrassing as my cards are Chip and Sign so I had to explain that the cards don't have a PIN.  For some time I have struggled with handling difficult issues on the phone and I was recovering from a major head surgery so I used their secure online messaging service to register the complaints in June 2021.  The bank's records show that a number of phone calls were made which, as they were from an unknown number, were rejected.  The banks then sent letters requiring additional information that was supplied using the messaging service.  These letters were addressed to me but with the addition of a new middle name that I didn't recognise so this was added to the complaint.  Lloyds admitted to FOS that they couldn't explain how the name appeared on their database and it took the FOS investigator to get the Lloyds Group to remove the middle name and misapply my correct title of Dr in August 2922.

It would appear that in order to correct apparently trivial details such as an incorrect name customers must now make an online complaint to the bank which will be dismissed and escalated to the FOS who will correct the errors.  Having done so they could then not uphold the complaint on the basis that no further action was required. 

The lesson must be to avoid banks that don't have a local branch, my village had a branch what closed in 2017 and the one 4 miles away closed this year.  The nearest is only 6 miles away by ferry

DullGreyGuy

The scope of the FOS is finite and there are complaint types its not authorised to look into, the rules are codified in the FCA handbook that can be found on their website.

Its not really clear what your complaint is or what went wrong with the complaint... contactless can not go through either by design or due to errors and it will fall back to the fuller authorisation. Clearly you've made a choice to have chip and sign card and so not sure how that is an embarrassment caused by your bank.

The language you have said the FOS has used suggests you've asked more than once and maybe its better you let this one die and choose a provider that works in a better way for you... personally would rather have my teeth extracted without anesthetic than go into a local branch but if thats your thing then move bank.

lincroft1710

Birdsnest451 said:

. 

The lesson must be to avoid banks that don't have a local branch

That may soon be nigh on impossible, judging by the ongoing mass closure of many bank branches

Birdsnest451

DullGreyGuy said:

 Clearly you've made a choice to have chip and sign card and so not sure how that is an embarrassment caused by your bank.

The choice, as you put it, was the result of my long term disability and the message Enter PIN was a request that indicated that the card reader didn't recognise that this was inappropriate.  I had previously attempted to pay for petrol at a filling station with a card that was supplied as Chip and Sign but was was actually Chip and PIN which is why the Ombudsman upheld my complaint.  I didn't have sufficient cash so the retailer threatened to cvall the police and after a 20 minute argument a lady in the queue offered to accept my cheque and pay by her card.

The language you have said the FOS has used suggests you've asked more than once and maybe its better you let this one die and choose a provider that works in a better way for you... personally would rather have my teeth extracted without anesthetic than go into a local branch but if thats your thing then move bank.

Perhaps you should rethink your comment as I don't have any anesthetic for dental treatment including the last two teeth extractions. 

Birdsnest451

lincroft1710 said:

That may soon be nigh on impossible, judging by the ongoing mass closure of many bank branches

The banks are moving to an online only service which is a result of the significant loss of high street retailers.  Their closure reduces the footfall in the banks and libraries allowing that to be used as the reason to close them for economic reasons.

This is accepted by the younger generation whose lives revolve around their smartphones and walk around oblivious to anyone not on their screen.  I run a session at my local library helping the pensioners struggling with their smartphones that their family have bought them.  This week my client couldn't even type numbers on the touch screen in order to login in.

flashg67

Not defending poor service, but a complaint going to FOS costs the bank (£550?) every time , so it isn't likely that the bank's system is set up to make this happen, more like staff incompetence or poor internal systems at the bank.

400ixl

Is the issue here that retailers do not appear to have a mechanism for dealing with Chip & Sign when the contactless side has to fall back to this?

Not sure how Chip & Sign is supposed to work, or why Chip and Pin does not work for you so can't comment on that.

As an option, could you not add the cards to something like Google Pay or Apple Pay on a smartphone? This way the contactless on the phone side will not default to sign as you authenticate on the phone which could be via biometrics rather than PIN.

DullGreyGuy

400ixl said:

Not sure how Chip & Sign is supposed to work, or why Chip and Pin does not work for you so can't comment on that.

Whilst not relevant in this case, I particularly dont know how it works with the likes of Zettle that has no printer in most cases... dont know anyone which a chip & sign card to put it in our machine to see what happens.

eskbanker

Birdsnest451 said:

The banks then sent letters requiring additional information that was supplied using the messaging service.  These letters were addressed to me but with the addition of a new middle name that I didn't recognise so this was added to the complaint.  Lloyds admitted to FOS that they couldn't explain how the name appeared on their database and it took the FOS investigator to get the Lloyds Group to remove the middle name and misapply my correct title of Dr in August 2922.

It would appear that in order to correct apparently trivial details such as an incorrect name customers must now make an online complaint to the bank which will be dismissed and escalated to the FOS who will correct the errors.  Having done so they could then not uphold the complaint on the basis that no further action was required.

What's the outcome you're looking for regarding the issue of the spurious middle name?  The obvious action, i.e. getting it corrected, has now been taken, albeit via a tortuous route involving FOS - it's unclear why Lloyds wouldn't just correct a mistake once aware of it, but is that perhaps because it was added to a complaint?

You could complaint to the ICO about Lloyds' data management weaknesses, in that they have obligations under the Data Protection Act to keep personal data accurate, but again, if the issue has been corrected, it's unlikely that anything would actually result from that.

Manxman_in_exile

400ixl said:

...

Not sure how Chip & Sign is supposed to work, or why Chip and Pin does not work for you so can't comment on that.
...

I assume the OP's long term disability combined with major head surgery means that they are unable to use a PIN but can sign a card "receipt" or voucher or whatever they are called.

But if shops and traders no longer have the facilities to accept a signature I'm not sure what the OP does - or if it warrants a complaint about the bank.

Does the bank have a duty to provide to people with a disablity a method with which they can use their account?  I assume there is such a duty, but that it is limited by reasonableness and practicality?

Is it an Equality Act issue?

[Edit:  Like other posters i'm not entirely sure what the substance of the OP's complaint is or was.  Perhaps the OP's disability makes it difficult for them to articulate it]

DullGreyGuy

Manxman_in_exile said:

400ixl said:

...

Not sure how Chip & Sign is supposed to work, or why Chip and Pin does not work for you so can't comment on that.
...

I assume the OP's long term disability combined with major head surgery means that they are unable to use a PIN but can sign a card "receipt" or voucher or whatever they are called.

But if shops and traders no longer have the facilities to accept a signature I'm not sure what the OP does - or if it warrants a complaint about the bank.

Does the bank have a duty to provide to people with a disablity a method with which they can use their account?  I assume there is such a duty, but that it is limited by reasonableness and practicality?

Is it an Equality Act issue?

[Edit:  Like other posters i'm not entirely sure what the substance of the OP's complaint is or was.  Perhaps the OP's disability makes it difficult for them to articulate it]

The bank has provided a facility, its the merchant that has decided to have kit that doesnt support chip and sign. The DDA etc only requires that reasonable adjustments are made and so you are probably in merky territory...  not sure there any mobile based systems like Zettle support chip and sign and have a battery powered printer. Zettle dont support them and even if they did their printer requires mains power which probably wont be available for 60% of market stalls etc.

Personally think a better solution in this day and age for those without the dexterity etc to use a pin pad is the likes of ApplePay and GooglePay etc which are uncapped, unlike contactless, and in my experience at least dont have the "after x contactless payments there must be an insert the card" which is the most common point of failure on contactless. With FaceID or other biometric options I'd imagine most that are capable of independent shopping would be capable of using it.