Received TWO callbacks from assessor following one-and-a-half-hour-long WCA assessment

CMB3

I had a one-and-a-half-hour-long telephone assessment yesterday and was wondering if it is normal to receive two callbacks from the assessor asking for "clarification." Each time, she tried to get me to say that I can handle anticipated change, however, I kept restating that even anticipated change causes significant distress for me (e.g. if the jobcentre changes my appointment a week prior to the appointment, I still find it upsetting and stressful).

What I found particularly creepy is that during the first callback she acted friendly; said that she wanted to apologize for what I have been through with the DWP; and wished me good luck for the future. On the second call (about half an hour later), she started by saying that she was just checking on me - doing a "welfare check," but then went on to question me about anticipated change to get me to say that I can deal with it.

I had my actual telephone assessment formally recorded and very conveniently for the assessor, these 2 callbacks were not recorded however, unbeknownst to her I recorded the 2 callbacks as well as the formal assessment. (I am certainly not relying on the DWP recording.)

Anyway, I just wondered if anyone had any thoughts on these two follow up calls. (The first callback happened about one hour after the assessment and the second callback happened about half hour after the first callback.)

Have you heard of this happening before? Do you think 2 follow-ups calls is too much? Is it acceptable to call back claimants in an effort to manipulate their answers to questions? 

PS

To me, it appears that she was trying to find a way of making me lose points. I can't see any positive reason for the callbacks although in the first one she was informal and friendly; she said that she wanted me to know that she did not represent the DWP and was really sorry about my negative experiences. She also said that she was trying to word the assessment report in a way that made everything really clear; it sounded at that time like she was trying to help. 

However, she completely changed in the second call - it was almost like she was a different person, as she started by stating that the call was a "welfare check" and said that her supervisor wanted clarification about different scenarios involving how I would react to anticipated change. I sent my mother the two audio recordings of the callbacks and my mother thought it was 2 different people - that's how different the assessor sounded on the two callbacks.

CMB3

I had my WCA assessment yesterday. While my health issue is severe anxiety and agoraphobia, the assessor spent a great deal of time asking me questions about physical disabilities which I had clearly indicated on the form that I did not have. As a result, the assessment lasted for one and a half hours and I did not get enough time to expand on how my anxiety and agoraphobia affected me. The assessor advised me that it was protocol to go through every potential health problem and implied that it was my fault that the call was taking so long.

On the WCA form (which the assessor indicated that she had read thoroughly) the 3 areas I had identified as affecting my ability to work/ engage in work related activities were 1) coping with change; 2) going out; and 3) coping with social interactions. If the claimant has checked boxes indicating they don't have physical disabilities, why waste time asking endless questions about them and then not allowing enough time for the mental health questions? I wondered if this assessor is correct in stating that she had to go through every single ailment on the assessment form.  Any thoughts on this?

poppy12345

It's not unusal for them to call back to ask you further questions, though this may not be straight away. I've heard of the assessor ringing back the following day. Nothing out of the ordinary there.

The 2nd call may well have been just to check on you. If there's any mental health concerns they have to follow that up and it's even been known for them to contact your GP with their concerns.

With the points, for either LCWRA for UC or Support Group for ESA it's not about scoring points anyway. Points are only scored for LCW or the WRAG and even then an assessor can't score you points, only a decision maker from DWP can do that.

poppy12345

You could have asked this question on your other thread here https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6394461/received-two-callbacks-from-assessor-following-one-and-a-half-hour-long-wca-assessment#latest

To answer your question, i agree that if you don't suffer with physical conditions then it's pointless asking any questions related to it.

HillStreetBlues

My take on it that both the second and third calls should have been recorded as well, as they would form part of the assessment.

poppy12345

HillStreetBlues said:

My take on it that both the second and third calls should have been recorded as well, as they would form part of the assessment.

The OP recorded the calls their self. You can't use a recording for the MR or Tribunal anyway.

CMB3

I had a work capability assessment yesterday. The assessor provided her name but did not tell me her profession. I did a Google search on her name and see that she is a physiotherapist. I did make a specific request for an assessor who specializes in mental health on my WCA form (I suffer from severe anxiety and agoraphobia). I wondered 1) is the assessor required to share their profession with the claimant and 2) given that I requested someone with mental health expertise on my form which was sent to the DWP in May this year, is it reasonable to have expected that this request would be honoured? My assessment was in October, so they had 5 months to find someone more suitable to do my assessment.

And just a final question... how quickly could the decision be made regarding the assessment given that I had it yesterday. I want a chance to write a letter of complaint to Maximus regarding how the assessment was conducted and due to my exhaustion from all the stress, I would prefer to have a couple more days to write the letter. In other words, I hope I don't get a quick decision (like tomorrow) because then I would have to deal with a mandatory reconsideration letter as well.

poppy12345

They do not have to tell you their profession. There's no harm in asking for an assessor with more knowledge in that particular condition but they don't have to honour that. As it's not about a diagnosis the assessors don't need to have any knowledge of any specific health conditions.

Timescales for decisions once the report is returned to DWP is anything up to about 12 weeks.

This is your 3rd thread now. It would be better if you could keep all your questions to one thread as they are all regarding your WCA. It can get very confusing when reading multiple threads from the same person.

MSE_ForumTeam5

We've combined three threads into this one

T.T.D

poppy12345 said:

HillStreetBlues said:

My take on it that both the second and third calls should have been recorded as well, as they would form part of the assessment.

The OP recorded the calls their self. You can't use a recording for the MR or Tribunal anyway.

Wrong, you can, MR & tribunals, you absolutely can if it has evidentiary value to use it in your own case, it is totally the discretion of the head of the presiding panel (usually district judge or magistrate), usually it is wise to transcript and chapter the recording for ease of reference for all in the tribunal, but there is no law prohibiting anyone from recording anything, 

case laws behind my post are 

Singh v Singh [2016] EWCH 1432 (Ch)

Mustard v Flower [2019] EWHC 2623 (QB)

You May state Article 8 of Human Rights Act 1998 would cover covert recordings and make it illegal, it doesn’t it come’s with a caveat:

Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights (currently incorporated into the Human Rights Act 1998) provides a right to respect for private and family life, home and correspondence. At present, the court, as a public body, is required to uphold these rights. The court must therefore consider Article 8 when determining whether a covert recording is admissible. However, a breach of Article 8 rights does not in and of itself prevent the court admitting covert recordings into evidence, provided it is still possible to conduct a fair trial.
This usually points to a private individual not one employed or contracted by a public body in a domain where being recorded is common place and even offered.

But data rights? Even then…:

Covert recordings made after 25 May 2018 come under the ambit of the Data Protection Act 2018 (“DPA”), which implemented the European Union General Data Protection Regulation (“GDPR”). The GDPR will apply if a recording contains personal data, i.e. information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person. Recording personal data without the data subject’s consent may amount to a breach of the DPA and the GDPR unless the recording is necessary for the purposes of the legitimate interests pursued by the data controller or a third party. One example of a legitimate interest is the prevention of fraud.

The legitimate purpose here is to ensure fairness in the assessment and not to have a he said she said debate over the phone assessment details of who said what to who, to ensure data is being conveyed and administered in its intended form, and not used to compile an illegitimate report for the subject user the DWP to make a decision on a very important matter, everyone knows including tribunal judges, that reports from HCP’s from the companies used by the DWP are historically problematic, therefore the legitimacy for recording “covertly or overtly” is more justifiable, plus as a company you would expect to be recorded for training and monitoring purposes anyway and transparency and should therefore be able to conduct a S.A.R for the telephone recording of it was company recorded by capita.

Could the HCP sue the OP? Yes of-course they can but must have deep pockets though because of a HM Courts and tribunal service accept (or even not accept) the recording for its legitimate interest and evidentiary value, that’s a massive hurdle to get past a High court judge for error in law or Article 8 breach.

This is not legal advice but advice of my own research and personal experiences and knowledge.

Edit: also last time I went through this and checked the policy and handbook, ringing multiple times to check a persons capacity for coping with change, did not include multiple calls as part of assessing their ability to cope with change, It’s not a formal process therefore if used in their report can be pointed out to the case managers for DWP in the MR. When it comes to tribunal if the MR relied upon the report as evidence, this non formal process they conducted can be stricken as evidence and you can guide the tribunal panel to use only parts of the report that do conform to the policy adopted by DWP to assess claimants using the guidance for HCP handbook itself or you can discredit the HCP for their nefarious actions and direct the tribunal to rely upon you own medical reports that support the descriptors you match and to what level and degree but here’s the caveat: the tribunal could adjourn pending another HCP assess you again in compliance of the guidance the DWP set them. 

That what I was doing before UC came into force with ESA.

Spoonie_Turtle

The MR and tribunal should focus on the facts, what the claimant can/can't do and which descriptors apply to them.  It's not there to debate the merits of the assessment or report.  As you say, tribunals are already well aware that assessments and the resultant reports can be … shall we say, flawed - they don't need to listen to hours of recordings to know not to give too much weight to them.  Especially if they contradict any medical evidence submitted.  What's important is focusing on the relevant activities and descriptors.

Recordings I'd have thought would be more useful for complaints against the assessment provider, to be able to directly quote the most offensive parts / most egregious lies.  (Although it seems complaints are more useful for catharsis than actually getting anything to change.)