energy company will not refund my £660 credit - HELP!

bodyguard

• I pay my fuel bill monthly via DD - I read the meter on the 23 and get my bill around the 24 - the amount of fuel I use is up to date each month, as I submit meter readings before the Bill is generated.
• my energy firm advised me on the weekend of how much fuel I am estimated to use over the next year, based on my previous fuel consumption  ( £300 over the average household estimate of £2500) and of course reviewed my DD. 
• My DD went down by £30 due to the Gov assistance  of £60+ per month -  there was no acknowledgement I was in credit by £660.
• Contacted the energy supplier today, to advise I wanted my DD to remain at the current amount and not be reduced, to ensure in the event I use more fuel I am not lumbered with a large monthly bill, and I want my £660 back, which they have sitting in their accounts gaining interest on.
• Energy company have refused - their policy is apparently when there is a credit on an account during the winter months they keep 2 months worth of DD payments in 'reserves' during winter - unclear why they need my money in reserves, given I am paying monthly, do not want my current DD amount to change and the DD can be reviewed monthly, in accordance with my usage. I would be happy to pay for fuel used each month when I get the bill.
• I have not been asked previously to be in credit or have been in 2 months DD worth of credit, so am baffled why the energy company have this policy when there is a actual credit. 
• I view this policy is a way for the energy company to earn interest off my money
• I have made a complaint and expect the energy company to tell me it is their policy of keeping 2 months worth of DD in reserves - which does not make sense as I receive monthly bills and can amend my DD if not paying enough for fuel used. 

Please can anyone advise how II can get my money back? I have not requested a refund over the past few months as was scared the increase in fuel would mean I was paying £300+ per month, which I could not afford.
Is it legal / ethical to have "customer must be in 2 months credit" to continue to pay by DD?
should I cancel my DD and just pay for what I have used? Can I do this? I am not sure if this will make my fuel prices rise
Is this happening for anyone else? 
I really need my money back to

please help!!

thanks in advance 

[Deleted User]

Legal, yes.

Ethical, yes.

Expected, yes.

A way to earn interest, no.

Could cancelling your DD make your price rise, yes.

If you trust yourself to budget, pay variable direct debit (because what you’ve described is fixed direct debit) if your supplier offers it.  Saying that you “really need your money back” would suggest that you are not prepared for variable DD in winter though.

ariarnia

if they project your bill to be 2800 a year (300 over 2500) then they expect your dd to be 233 a month. 2 x 233 is 466 so they should have no problems refunding you at least 200 of your 660. not all but better than nothing maybe?

bodyguard

Thank you both so much for responding. I do appreciate
 
sorry I don't get / understand your responses. 

My projected bill and monthly repayments have been calculated by the energy company - I would assume they would calculate higher rather than lower use of fuel..  the calculations include the Gov 'rebate'
My concern is:

• why am I being forced to have payments in reserves totalling £400? 
• I have never made payments in advance / reserves previously with this company
• why is it acceptable for the fuel company to provide a view as to how much fuel I am estimated to use, change my DD accordingly, notifying me this is subject to review , but you have advised they should keep my money - I am not sure if you have picked up on my getting a monthly bill and not quarterly so the energy company and I will be aware of how much energy I use each month month and therefore a review of my DD can be made every month.
• how can I agree to my money being in their account, earning interest each month, when I am not in debit?  s
• I am paying monthly and would be wiling to pay when /if my account is in debit each month?. I want my DD payment to remain the same, despite the company saying this should be lowered
• why / how would I be penalised for continuing with my original DD payment?

with thanks 

dunstonh

• my energy firm advised me on the weekend of how much fuel I am estimated to use over the next year, based on my previous fuel consumption  ( £300 over the average household estimate of £2500) and of course reviewed my DD. 

That is not your energy consumption.  That is a monetary amount applied to what they think your consumption will be.  

It may or may not be relatively accurate depending on how well you have been providing them with actual meter readings.

• Contacted the energy supplier today, to advise I wanted my DD to remain at the current amount and not be reduced, to ensure in the event I use more fuel I am not lumbered with a large monthly bill, and I want my £660 back, which they have sitting in their accounts gaining interest on.

Over the warmer months, you build up summer credit to cover the increased costs over winter.  Some people use as much as 85% of their annual energy from November to March.    Asking for your Summer credit back will put your direct debit up.

• Energy company have refused - their policy is apparently when there is a credit on an account during the winter months they keep 2 months worth of DD payments in 'reserves' during winter - unclear why they need my money in reserves, given I am paying monthly, do not want my current DD amount to change and the DD can be reviewed monthly, in accordance with my usage. I would be happy to pay for fuel used each month when I get the bill.

If you are paying monthly direct debit, then you are averaging out the high use months with the low use months.   In summer, you build credit that will be spent later.   

If you are happy to pay the bill for each month then you can do this by moving to variable direct debit.  But be prepared for some big months ahead.

• I have not been asked previously to be in credit or have been in 2 months DD worth of credit, so am baffled why the energy company have this policy when there is a actual credit. 

Either you haven't seen it (but it has happened) or you have been in arrears.

Is it legal / ethical to have "customer must be in 2 months credit" to continue to pay by DD?

Its legal. Its ethical and its common sense.

ariarnia

from the energy companies perspective then i can see where they're coming from. we're just going into winter so just going into your highest use months and last winter was very mild so there's a decent chance they under estimated your usage given it's based on the last 12 months (not a figure pulled from their hats). and there's also nothing stoping you from cancelling your dd or saying you can't afford it right after they refunded you the credit (not that i'm saying you would or that it would be an official reason for them but I can see why that might be a risk). 

but whatever their reason you aren't being forced. 

you will likely have always been carrying credit going into winter becayse that's how annual dd's work. you pay more than you use during the summer and less than you use during the winter with the credit from summer to winter balancing the account over the year. 

sparky grad has already pointed out you can move to variable dd or payment on receipt of bill if you want to (that is your 'reviewing your DD monthly based on what you used that month') but that it will work out more expensive as you might not have the discount for paying by dd and will have to make sure you budget for higher bills in winter becayse they won't balance your payments against your annual use.

if you don't want to do that and aren't happy with your energy companies policy then you can move to a different company. given everyone basically has the same rates now there's no reason to switch other than things like customer service and policies like this. 

[Deleted User]

bodyguard said:

• why am I being forced to have payments in reserves totalling £400? 

To avoid going into debt over winter when your monthly usage is much higher.

bodyguard said:

• I have never made payments in advance / reserves previously with this company

Unless your direct debit every month has exactly matched your consumption (which is hasn’t because you are in fixed DD and have credit), or you have always been in debt, then you have made payments in advance.

bodyguard said:

• why is it acceptable for the fuel company to provide a view as to how much fuel I am estimated to use, change my DD accordingly, notifying me this is subject to review , but you have advised they should keep my money - I am not sure if you have picked up on my getting a monthly bill and not quarterly so the energy company and I will be aware of how much energy I use each month month and therefore a review of my DD can be made every month.

Oh, we picked up on it, because that’s how most people pay. The idea of a fixed DD is that they spread things out evenly over a year and don’t need to review and change the amount every month. It is perfectly normal for your supplier to estimate your consumption,

bodyguard said:

• how can I agree to my money being in their account, earning interest each month, when I am not in debit?   

Because that’s what happens when you spread a very variable cost evenly across time. You either end up with credit or debt. As OFGEM have told suppliers to avoid putting their customers in large amounts of debt, accounts tend to have credit.

bodyguard said:

• I am paying monthly and would be wiling to pay when /if my account is in debit each month?. I want my DD payment to remain the same, despite the company saying this should be lowered
• why / how would I be penalised for continuing with my original DD payment?

You wouldn’t be penalised, but as you have built up credit it seems that the original DD might have been too high.  With a lower DD and higher winter usage they will use up some of his credit.  It’s a strange complaint to be saying that you have too much credit and yet you want to increase your payments.

It sounds like you would be more comfortable with variable direct debit, where you pay each month for exactly what you have used and never build up any credit. This does mean, however, that your monthly payment might be £100 in summer and £500 in winter, so budget accordingly if you ask your supplier for this payment method.

[Deleted User]

Sadly, by virtue of the Tory party’s leadership machinations, the decision on the EPG was taken very late in the day.

In an Ideal World, suppliers would have carried out a tariff review effective from 1 October and deducted/added any credit/debit balance to the annual cost etc. When divided by 12 this would have determined the monthly DD payment for the next 12 months.  For the months, Oct to Mar 23, this payment would have been discounted by £66/67. Sadly, this process, in most cases, didn’t happen.

What we are seeing now is supplier catch up and considerable customer confusion.