Leaving heating (mostly) off during winter months.

Phil4432

Just a thought for money saving really; been considering leaving the heating mostly off this winter.  I'm in good health, and am ok with sitting around in a ski suit.(!)  Would put the heating on when its close to freezing, and when guests came by.  Apart from that, I've been toying with leaving it off as much as possible to save the bills. 

Its generally advised to keep the house heated to about 13C minimum to avoid condensation issues.
However, I'd leave my de humidifier on at night and vent during the day as much as possible.  That could solve most of the condensation.

So what else could happen with the heating off?  What could get damaged by a home with internal temp at around 2C-12C during winter?

Bendy_House

Nothing. It should be fine.

As long as the temp doesn't drop enough to freeze pipes, the actual fabric of the house should be fine.

Any room that you aren't using, just turn the rad TRVs to 'frost', crack open a window to 'vent' setting, and close the door to it from the rest of the house. The room will be cold, but dry. There should be no condensation issues or mould.

Have the main CH stat set to whatever temp you like, but certainly - again - to avoid freezing. To remain sane, tho', your suggested 13-odd oC makes sense. You'll likely find that the internal temp will be more than this on most days due to solar warming, but it would be nice to have it as an absolute min.

At such temps, tho', you WILL likely have condensation issues in the main house due to cooking and showers, so you should ensure both are ventilated away at source, and again ventilate any rooms that may start to be affected.

I'd only use a dehumidifier if absolutely essential; I'd try and rely on natural ventilation via windows cracked open, especially overnight.

Bottom line, other than the risk of damage by freezing pipes, you could actually leave a home COMPLETELY without any heating for many months without issues, provided it is kept well ventilated. Issues happen when you add 'living', as that generates lots of moisture. That needs removing before it condenses out.

FreeBear

Phil4432 said: So what else could happen with the heating off?  What could get damaged by a home with internal temp at around 2C-12C during winter?

You don't want to be storing fine wines at those sorts of temperatures. 12-15°C is optimal.

As surfaces get colder, condensation will form - Wood will have a tendency to swell and distort. Steel surfaces could rust. Paper and cloth will start to smell musty as mold sets in. Whilst a dehumidifier will help to keep the humidity down, it won't prevent condensation forming entirely.

Hannimal

Do you really mean humidifier or dehumidifier? I use a humidifier sometimes for my plants but definitely wouldn't recommend it if you don't have heating on. 

Bendy_House

Ah, misread first post. I though Phil was saying he'd keep the temp at 13oC, but he's considering lower than this.

For rooms that are just not used at all, the same will apply - they will be fine provided they are ventilated, and prevented from receiving 'warm' moist air from the rest of the house. (And same freezing pipes proviso)

For the 'living' parts of the house, it'll be a similar scenario, BUT this area WILL have a higher level of humidity in it, which WILL likely start condensing out on colder surfaces, and also where there's restricted flow of air - behind units, in cupboards, that sort of stuff. It should be relatively easy to monitor this, tho', and be ready to take action. ('Action' being more heating or more ventilation, or possibly a dehumidifier.)

And, trying to get rid of the moisture on production.

In practice, even with zero heating, most days should find the inside house temp 'comfortably' above near-and-actual freezing outside temps due to solar warming. 

I don't know what the running cost of a dehumid is, but I think what I would do in order to keep a house at absolute min running costs would be:

Unused rooms - as explained.

Living areas - set 'stat to maintain a min during times of use. I dunno, 8oC? At this sort of temp, I think it'll hardly ever come on. Monitor and take action against cond - vent or dehumid.

Overnight - stat down to 'frost', living area windows to vent (try that first, to see if a dehumid is really needed)

Heating on for, say, an hour in the morning to give the living-area fabric a boost start, before the daylight hopefully takes over. Say, 12 or so degrees?

Are you in the house during the day? Do you work there?

Try something like this, and see how it goes!

Please report back, and if fingers too numb to type, then use 'speach-to-text' with shiver filter activated.

chrisw

There's money saving and there's money saving. 

If it's genuinely heat or eat then applying the above measures will help. 

If it's just to save a few bob then set the heating to a reasonable level, at least for part of the day to keep things dry. Once the fabric of the building gets cold it's difficult to get heat back in it again.

You can still wear your ski gear between times if you wish.

Chickereeeee

Dehumidifiers (refrigerant type) do not work well in low temperatures. Below about 15C they get worse in efficiency, as they depend on the difference between ambient temperature and the refrigerant, and can ice up. They don't work at all below 5C.

Dessicant dehumidifiers are better for low temperatures.

Phil4432

Bendy_House said:

Nothing. It should be fine.

As long as the temp doesn't drop enough to freeze pipes, the actual fabric of the house should be fine.

Any room that you aren't using, just turn the rad TRVs to 'frost', crack open a window to 'vent' setting, and close the door to it from the rest of the house. The room will be cold, but dry. There should be no condensation issues or mould.

Have the main CH stat set to whatever temp you like, but certainly - again - to avoid freezing. To remain sane, tho', your suggested 13-odd oC makes sense. You'll likely find that the internal temp will be more than this on most days due to solar warming, but it would be nice to have it as an absolute min.

At such temps, tho', you WILL likely have condensation issues in the main house due to cooking and showers, so you should ensure both are ventilated away at source, and again ventilate any rooms that may start to be affected.

I'd only use a dehumidifier if absolutely essential; I'd try and rely on natural ventilation via windows cracked open, especially overnight.

Bottom line, other than the risk of damage by freezing pipes, you could actually leave a home COMPLETELY without any heating for many months without issues, provided it is kept well ventilated. Issues happen when you add 'living', as that generates lots of moisture. That needs removing before it condenses out.

Last year, I actually had the house around 10C or less at night, the occasional burn during the day to take it up to around 14C.  The house was fine, despite the colder temps at night.

With cooking/showering, I vent, vent and vent some more.  Windows open for a bath, extractor fan running.  Then small window open for hours after.  When working out, windows and back door open.  Then more venting.

Maybe a good compromise would be to heat a little more when its damp (have a park with trees close by, the afternoon sun gets a little blocked.  Garden shed is a proper damp zone) and then completely off when dry but above freezing. 

Phil4432

FreeBear said:

Phil4432 said: So what else could happen with the heating off?  What could get damaged by a home with internal temp at around 2C-12C during winter?

You don't want to be storing fine wines at those sorts of temperatures. 12-15°C is optimal.

As surfaces get colder, condensation will form - Wood will have a tendency to swell and distort. Steel surfaces could rust. Paper and cloth will start to smell musty as mold sets in. Whilst a dehumidifier will help to keep the humidity down, it won't prevent condensation forming entirely.

I'm a musician and have expensive guitars, amps, recording equipment.  Loads of books. 

Something to consider....

Bendy_House

Phil4432 said:

I'm a musician and have expensive guitars, amps, recording equipment.  Loads of books. 

Something to consider....

Hmmm, yes... Do you use hygrometers for your guitars?

I posted an observation on another thread (also to do with heating over winter) about swapping books at a local 'bookshop', which is an open-to-the-elements, tho' covered, bus stop in a nearby village. All the books therein are in very good order, with not a sign of a wrinkled page, regardless of how heavy it's peeing down just 2 feet away. So, my take from that is, provided there is plenty of ventilation, there should be very few problems.

This might not work well with items as sensitive as guitars, tho'. The issue will likely be that, although they could well be 'ok' at 10oC for most of the time (proviso for ventilation) as they will 'acclimatise', you will most likely be taking them into warmer and more moist atmospheres at certain intervals? You know what happens when you take a cold body in to a warm room? Yup, condie. And, very likely, movement. Anathema to geetars.

I'd seek advice on this. Are you able to keep one room - the 'music' room - at a more controlled state. Ie, greater, consistent, background heating, coupled with a dehumidifier triggered to come on at required settings? I really don't know what is needed, but it's worth investigating - there must be lots of specific forums that could help (but you'll likely have to trawl through numerous, "Are you mad?! I'd never treat my 'Paul like that..." sanctimonious 'trap.)

twopenny

I've done this in the twice past just a gas fire in one room, electric blanket and hot water.
Just kept an eye on temperature with the idea that if it dropped below 6C I'd put the heating on to protect pipes - though both tank and pipes were well lagged well.

Over 2 winters the only downside was some mildew on oak door handles in unused rooms. Some books in an enclosed cabinet got just a little foxing. The piano was fine.

The upside was no sinus or colds. I was healthier if a little grumpier. I saved enough for a 6 week trip to Oz 

The most annoying thing was the things you touched like cups were so cold and made you colder.