Can my employer deduct from wages for whatever they want?
Miss_Cheef
Forumite 14 Posts
Have received a revised contract which they're wanting me to sign.
In the past, to my knowledge, they've just had general deductions for things like if you take more holidays than you accrue before leaving.
I have no issue with these kinds of deductions & others that are similar (such as being overpaid) where I think you'd have to be pretty awkward to not agree to a deduction.
However I've seen an addition which I've never seen before and I'm wondering to what degree can they deduct on the back of it.
Reading it & it sounds like everything is all perfectly fine. There'll be investigations and procedures carried out properly and if you're found to fall foul after the investigation then you'll have wages deducted.
However I've worked there for quite some time and often what is down on paper and what is the reality are two completely different things.
I can say that there will more often than not be no investigation at all. The company owner will be in a bad mood because the coffee they had made for them was a bit cold that morning & if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time then you're getting it - and you may be getting it for something one of your co-workers did. They'll threaten a deduction, payroll gets told to make the deduction & then you're down on wages - that's the extent of the investigation - the boss getting mad, payroll doing as they're told & you suffering.
I've been on the receiving end in the past. To give you an example of the investigation process it went like this - I was accused of taking 30 minutes for a "5 minute job". In reality SuperMan couldn't do it in 5 minutes, it's a 10 minute job (a common thing is for the boss to say jobs take half the time they do and then say you took 10x the time you did). I'd take say 10 minutes to do a 10 minute job & I got deducted an hour. Payroll just did as they were told.
I remember this clear as day because it was around the time one of my parents died - as I went to payroll basically with a letter regarding unlawful deduction of wages and payroll basically said to me - did you notice you were paid up to 40 hours (the week my parent died - I worked about 36 so 4 hours free). The way it was put to me was that they were doing it out of being nice kind of thing and I should think twice about challenging over an hours deduction when I was given 4 hours free.
It was only a little while later after eventually getting the contract did I discover the 4 hours weren't given to me nice - it was the T&Cs of the contract to pay up to 40 hours in that situation.
I've known of others too who've just been deducted wages on the end of a bad moon rant.
So does the 2nd image there read as that to you?
I don't want to leave myself open to them deducting whatever they want whenever they want.
As I said, I'm not being awkward as the other stuff I can agree with but I don't want to be in a situation where they just deduct because they feel like it.
Also, something I'm less concerned about as I'd be surprised if they chased someone through the courts, but can they really stop you leaving them to go work for a customer of theirs?
That's like saying to someone working for Screwfix you can't go be a plumber because most of the plumbers in the area buy from us at some point. You'll have to wait for 6 months before you can go and do that.
Just seems a bit wrong.
In the past, to my knowledge, they've just had general deductions for things like if you take more holidays than you accrue before leaving.
I have no issue with these kinds of deductions & others that are similar (such as being overpaid) where I think you'd have to be pretty awkward to not agree to a deduction.
However I've seen an addition which I've never seen before and I'm wondering to what degree can they deduct on the back of it.
Reading it & it sounds like everything is all perfectly fine. There'll be investigations and procedures carried out properly and if you're found to fall foul after the investigation then you'll have wages deducted.
However I've worked there for quite some time and often what is down on paper and what is the reality are two completely different things.
I can say that there will more often than not be no investigation at all. The company owner will be in a bad mood because the coffee they had made for them was a bit cold that morning & if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time then you're getting it - and you may be getting it for something one of your co-workers did. They'll threaten a deduction, payroll gets told to make the deduction & then you're down on wages - that's the extent of the investigation - the boss getting mad, payroll doing as they're told & you suffering.
I've been on the receiving end in the past. To give you an example of the investigation process it went like this - I was accused of taking 30 minutes for a "5 minute job". In reality SuperMan couldn't do it in 5 minutes, it's a 10 minute job (a common thing is for the boss to say jobs take half the time they do and then say you took 10x the time you did). I'd take say 10 minutes to do a 10 minute job & I got deducted an hour. Payroll just did as they were told.
I remember this clear as day because it was around the time one of my parents died - as I went to payroll basically with a letter regarding unlawful deduction of wages and payroll basically said to me - did you notice you were paid up to 40 hours (the week my parent died - I worked about 36 so 4 hours free). The way it was put to me was that they were doing it out of being nice kind of thing and I should think twice about challenging over an hours deduction when I was given 4 hours free.
It was only a little while later after eventually getting the contract did I discover the 4 hours weren't given to me nice - it was the T&Cs of the contract to pay up to 40 hours in that situation.
I've known of others too who've just been deducted wages on the end of a bad moon rant.
So does the 2nd image there read as that to you?
I don't want to leave myself open to them deducting whatever they want whenever they want.
As I said, I'm not being awkward as the other stuff I can agree with but I don't want to be in a situation where they just deduct because they feel like it.
Also, something I'm less concerned about as I'd be surprised if they chased someone through the courts, but can they really stop you leaving them to go work for a customer of theirs?
That's like saying to someone working for Screwfix you can't go be a plumber because most of the plumbers in the area buy from us at some point. You'll have to wait for 6 months before you can go and do that.
Just seems a bit wrong.
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The contract seems to set out all the circumstances under which they can make deductions, but as you say, they might not follow your contract. Ultimately, you can raise a grievance if they don't, but this migght just bring more trouble down on your head.
In your situation, I would sign the new contract and get on with my life - if the employer, or a particular manager, tried it on, you can always leave. Employers only get the loyalty they deserve.
It's the deduction of pay for the weather being miserable or because the day ended in ".....day" that concerns me.
What if an employee doesn't sign would be an obvious question. I assume it'll get to a point where if you're still there after <time period> then it's considered signed?
Regards leaving after a deduction - that's all superb (IF the employee had a job to immediately go in to). If someone just quits but has no job to walk in to and is not in a position where they can go without work for an undetermined amount of time then that's just silly.
Working for someone whom they deem to be a customer is more for the likes of Solicitors/lawyers/bankers,( and a shed load of other professions ) who have a portfolio of clients who they may want to poach when going it alone. Someone working in Screwfix wont have a personal loyal customer base that they will be taking with them to work for JJ plumbers and co