Whatsapp & Disciplinary

Undervalued

Ath_Wat said:

Undervalued said:

Scoflo said:

Whatsapp isn't social media tho.  It's a communication app, encrypted so apparently safer that text, unless someone prints off the conversation.

Which is apparently what happened.

Never assume anything is confidential so only say "privately" what you would be prepared to say in public.

Well indeed, but it isn't social media that's the problem, it's someone deliberately showing private messages to others.  This is essentially like finding out someone has recorded a private conversation and played it back to your manager.

The problem is that somebody made derogatory remarks about their employer. The comments were "published", albeit only to two other people. Had the employee not made the comments there would be nothing to report. The restricted nature of the "publication" arguably mitigates the damage to some extent but that still doesn't mean it should have happened.

You liken it to a covert recording and in a way that is true. However an unrecorded conversation could still be reported accurately and the only difference would be less hard evidence.

As has been pointed out on here innumerable times, an employer doesn't need proof to take disciplinary action, only a reasonable belief.

Whether three people in a closed group amounts to social media or not is largely irrelevant. An employer doesn't have to spell out every conceivable thing that they consider to be misconduct. Generally phrases such as "for example" or "including but not limited to" are used in well written employee handbooks.

theoretica

Scoflo said:

Can anyone keep me right, please?

This is a small group (3) set up expressly for moaning about work and life.  One person has left and printed off messages and my friend now finds herself on a disciplinary Inappropriate Comments of an Aggressive Nature in a Group Chat.  Not sure why this occurred but is this reasonable?

Thanks

Trying to argue with her employer that this is unreasonable does not seem like a course of action that will benefit her. 

55ryan

My previous job we were not allowed to talk on social media at all. It was a pain. 

A friend has been sacked twice, once for moaning about his boss on Facebook and another time for calling his CEO a..... on Whatsapp. Someone reported the latter and the boss saw the first one.  This person is a 'i believe in free speech' individual. They were at it again recently in another job. Only a matter of time. 

My tip is say nothing on social media including Whatsapp about your company or something that is deemed to be PC.  Never ever add any work colleagues to anything. There will always be people out there ready to report you to 'enhance' their own career or a relative friend that has the hump with you. Be invisible regardless of what work handbooks do or do not say.  

Ath_Wat

Undervalued said:

Ath_Wat said:

Undervalued said:

Scoflo said:

Whatsapp isn't social media tho.  It's a communication app, encrypted so apparently safer that text, unless someone prints off the conversation.

Which is apparently what happened.

Never assume anything is confidential so only say "privately" what you would be prepared to say in public.

Well indeed, but it isn't social media that's the problem, it's someone deliberately showing private messages to others.  This is essentially like finding out someone has recorded a private conversation and played it back to your manager.

The problem is that somebody made derogatory remarks about their employer. The comments were "published", albeit only to two other people. Had the employee not made the comments there would be nothing to report. The restricted nature of the "publication" arguably mitigates the damage to some extent but that still doesn't mean it should have happened.

You liken it to a covert recording and in a way that is true. However an unrecorded conversation could still be reported accurately and the only difference would be less hard evidence.

As has been pointed out on here innumerable times, an employer doesn't need proof to take disciplinary action, only a reasonable belief.

Whether three people in a closed group amounts to social media or not is largely irrelevant. An employer doesn't have to spell out every conceivable thing that they consider to be misconduct. Generally phrases such as "for example" or "including but not limited to" are used in well written employee handbooks.

I am not saying it's not misconduct.  I am taking issue with people who are claiming the lesson to be learned is "don't say anything on social media".

The lesson, if there is one, is don't say anything at all.

And incidentally, we do not know that they made derogatory comments about their employer, and "Inappropriate Comments of an Aggressive Nature in a Group Chat" does not sound to me like that is what the problem is.

B0bbyEwing

Ath_Wat said:
Again, you said something in a place where people you didn't know could see it.

This is a WhatsApp group with 3 members.  It's not even remotely comparable.

One of those three people has deliberately reported the Op's friend, for reasons we are not party to.  It's not a "don't say anything on social media" situation at all.

You miss the point. Or choose to not see it.

What I'm saying is, play with fire & get burnt.

Creating a group chat specifically to have a moan about work is just asking for trouble. If work has taught me anything it's that you can't trust those you work with. 

Want to guarantee not getting in trouble? Don't chat about your workplace. Whether it's in closed groups or in the open or whatever.

Want to be able to have a moan about the workplace like that then that's fine but don't then whinge when it all goes a bit wrong.

Ath_Wat

B0bbyEwing said:

Ath_Wat said:
Again, you said something in a place where people you didn't know could see it.

This is a WhatsApp group with 3 members.  It's not even remotely comparable.

One of those three people has deliberately reported the Op's friend, for reasons we are not party to.  It's not a "don't say anything on social media" situation at all.

You miss the point. Or choose to not see it.

What I'm saying is, play with fire & get burnt.

Creating a group chat specifically to have a moan about work is just asking for trouble. If work has taught me anything it's that you can't trust those you work with. 

Want to guarantee not getting in trouble? Don't chat about your workplace. Whether it's in closed groups or in the open or whatever.

Want to be able to have a moan about the workplace like that then that's fine but don't then whinge when it all goes a bit wrong.

I don't argue with any of that. My point is that this is not a "social media" issue.  It's a "don't say things in any medium or format to people you don't trust" issue.  
Putting stuff on Facebook is a whole other level of stupid.

This is of course assuming it is derogatory stuff about the company that is the issue, rather than abusive or insulting comments to one of the other participants.  The latter not only fits the description given more exactly, but would far better explain why they have chosen to report it.

robatwork

55ryan said:

A friend has been sacked twice, once for moaning about his boss on Facebook and another time for calling his CEO a..... on Whatsapp. Someone reported the latter and the boss saw the first one.  This person is a 'i believe in free speech' individual. They were at it again recently in another job. Only a matter of time. 

Probably also someone who invokes the Magna Carta when arrested, and thinks if he wears a green hat on a Wednesday he can drive his cattle over London Bridge.

Scoflo

Scoflo said:

Whatsapp isn't social media tho.  It's a communication app, encrypted so apparently safer that text, unless someone prints off the conversation.

Hi all I came back to update you.  A bit shocked to see so many messages.  Thanks for taking the time to do that.  I may go back and read them but I suspect it's best not to. 

No further action was the outcome.  There is a piece in the letter which says "In terms of the comments made with regard to the group chat - whilst it's not a regulated (employers name) social media platform, we don't promote negative inputs".   

May be a surprise to some but its just a relief to put this to bed now.

Thanks again

B0bbyEwing

Scoflo said:

Scoflo said:

Whatsapp isn't social media tho.  It's a communication app, encrypted so apparently safer that text, unless someone prints off the conversation.

Hi all I came back to update you.  A bit shocked to see so many messages.  Thanks for taking the time to do that.  I may go back and read them but I suspect it's best not to. 

No further action was the outcome.  There is a piece in the letter which says "In terms of the comments made with regard to the group chat - whilst it's not a regulated (employers name) social media platform, we don't promote negative inputs".   

May be a surprise to some but its just a relief to put this to bed now.

Thanks again

I'd take this whole episode as a near miss & use it to learn from.

Don't say anything = can't get in trouble.

Be very careful what's said, who it's said to & through what kind of media it's said on.

And on top of that, have a re-think about who you can & can't trust. I'd say if you work with them then they can't be trusted, not 100%. That's just from my own personal experience. Just don't wind up being the one to say "I never thought they'd....".

Ath_Wat

B0bbyEwing said:

Scoflo said:

Scoflo said:

Whatsapp isn't social media tho.  It's a communication app, encrypted so apparently safer that text, unless someone prints off the conversation.

Hi all I came back to update you.  A bit shocked to see so many messages.  Thanks for taking the time to do that.  I may go back and read them but I suspect it's best not to. 

No further action was the outcome.  There is a piece in the letter which says "In terms of the comments made with regard to the group chat - whilst it's not a regulated (employers name) social media platform, we don't promote negative inputs".   

May be a surprise to some but its just a relief to put this to bed now.

Thanks again

And on top of that, have a re-think about who you can & can't trust. I'd say if you work with them then they can't be trusted, not 100%. That's just from my own personal experience. Just don't wind up being the one to say "I never thought they'd....".

This is rather an odd assertion.  If I start working with my wife, does that mean I can't trust her any more?

If you mean "Don't trust people if your only contact with them is through work" it would make more sense.