Capped tariff -- backdoor nationalisation

The_Green_Hornet

wittynamegoeshere said:

The "suppliers" are now serving absolutely no useful purpose, there is no competition and it's almost impossible to switch even if you wanted to.  Plus they're all state-subsidised.

This isn't a market, it's just a bunch of zombie companies taking money off the government and the people.  The state may as well just supply everyone direct instead of funding this pointless nonsense.  All that's needed is a way to squeeze them out, there's no need to buy them out.  They could set up a state supplier at 1p/unit less than the rest, let everyone switch and leave them all to wither away, they don't actually own any useful assets so nobody would notice if they all closed down.

Most people don't think that privatising the NHS, roads or bin collections would be a good thing.  We mistakenly privatised a bunch of essential services that shouldn't have ever been privatised in the first place and anyone who's not hung up on false rhetoric can see that it's nonsense and that we should find a way out of this mess.

Awaiting the choruses of insinuation that anyone suggesting such a thing must be some mad commie.  Nobody's suggesting privatising car or tractor production.

I don't know who collects your bins but ours are done by Serco.

[Deleted User]

A few councils did exactly that, didn’t they?  Set up a public supplier that didn’t make profit in the hopes that everyone would switch there and it would be a nice socialised benefit.

They all went bust.

The_Green_Hornet

wittynamegoeshere said:

The_Green_Hornet said:

wittynamegoeshere said:

The "suppliers" are now serving absolutely no useful purpose, there is no competition and it's almost impossible to switch even if you wanted to.  Plus they're all state-subsidised.

This isn't a market, it's just a bunch of zombie companies taking money off the government and the people.  The state may as well just supply everyone direct instead of funding this pointless nonsense.  All that's needed is a way to squeeze them out, there's no need to buy them out.  They could set up a state supplier at 1p/unit less than the rest, let everyone switch and leave them all to wither away, they don't actually own any useful assets so nobody would notice if they all closed down.

Most people don't think that privatising the NHS, roads or bin collections would be a good thing.  We mistakenly privatised a bunch of essential services that shouldn't have ever been privatised in the first place and anyone who's not hung up on false rhetoric can see that it's nonsense and that we should find a way out of this mess.

Awaiting the choruses of insinuation that anyone suggesting such a thing must be some mad commie.  Nobody's suggesting privatising car or tractor production.

I don't know who collects your bins but ours are done by Serco.

I realise that some councils have outsourced their bin collection as a whole, but you still pay the democratically elected council for this service and can choose to vote for someone else if you don't like the service you're getting.

You're not paying Serco directly, and there aren't 12 different bin lorries going round collecting from a random subset of houses each, who all pay a state fixed subsidised fee and can't choose to switch bin company if they don't like the service.  This is how it would look if structured like the energy industry.

I get your point.

sevenhills

[Deleted User] said:

Not quite so many as there were before, but your point still stands.

Indeed, they make so much money they should suffer a windfall tax, yet some went bust very recently.
How is Bulb doing, the energy company that the government bailed out, has it paid it's debt?

born_again

2010 said:

With most people now or in the future (when fixes end) being on the capped tariff, it seems a bit like nationalisation by the backdoor.

Mrs T sold off the energy companies to create competition but now most of the big six are foreign owned.

The fledgling companies were poorly regulated and vetted by Offgem and some went bust leaving everyone to pick up the "supplier of last resort" bill.

Maybe, although it doesn`t look good now, this capping tariff will prove to be a watershed moment to get the vital services back under state control.

One price per unit for gas / electricity for all customers no matter what form of payment they choose to make.

Labour and their Great British Energy seem to think so.

It seems that way. Till you realise that we still have a choice of suppliers.
So EV drivers can go to Octopus or other supplier that offers cheap deals for off peak charging. Same with people wanting Eco 7 can do the same. Rest of us as free to choose who we want to use.
Nationalisation will mean one supplier, with maybe less choice of tariffs to suit different needs.

There is then the paying the current owners of the companies to buy them out. So will it lead to cheaper charges? Who knows.

One thing that really bugs me is the use of the word "CAP" and the figure that goes with it... Why can they not simply say that the unit price is a max of XX.. Rather than quoting a average figure for annual usage than makes many people think that is the max they are going to pay.. Ofgen have a lot to hang their head in shame on.

sevenhills

We had a non profit making energy company, White Rose energy, it went bust.

michaels

wittynamegoeshere said:

The "suppliers" are now serving absolutely no useful purpose, there is no competition and it's almost impossible to switch even if you wanted to.  Plus they're all state-subsidised.

This isn't a market, it's just a bunch of zombie companies taking money off the government and the people.  The state may as well just supply everyone direct instead of funding this pointless nonsense.  All that's needed is a way to squeeze them out, there's no need to buy them out.  They could set up a state supplier at 1p/unit less than the rest, let everyone switch and leave them all to wither away, they don't actually own any useful assets so nobody would notice if they all closed down.

Most people don't think that privatising the NHS, roads or bin collections would be a good thing.  We mistakenly privatised a bunch of essential services that shouldn't have ever been privatised in the first place and anyone who's not hung up on false rhetoric can see that it's nonsense and that we should find a way out of this mess.

Awaiting the choruses of insinuation that anyone suggesting such a thing must be some mad commie.  Nobody's suggesting nationalising car or tractor production.

I so wish I had to deal with a part of the government when I had to do anything regarding the energy supply, they do so well with other interactions like HMRC, Pensions, DVLA etc etc

stewie_griffin

2010 said:

Mrs T sold off the energy companies to create competition but now most of the big six are foreign owned.

I know it’s only a minor point but aren’t half of the current big 6 suppliers British owned (OVO, BG and Octopus).

MWT

born_again said:

One thing that really bugs me is the use of the word "CAP" and the figure that goes with it... Why can they not simply say that the unit price is a max of XX.. Rather than quoting a average figure for annual usage than makes many people think that is the max they are going to pay.. Ofgen have a lot to hang their head in shame on.

Unfortunately that isn't going to be any better than the current way the cap mechanism is expressed as there isn't a single unit price you can use that isn't also an average of other numbers and based on assumptions about method of payment, metering type etc.

The problem really is the need for politicians and the press toy reduce things to a single sound-bite that doesn't actually apply to anyone at all.

2010

stewie_griffin said:

2010 said:

Mrs T sold off the energy companies to create competition but now most of the big six are foreign owned.

I know it’s only a minor point but aren’t half of the current big 6 suppliers British owned (OVO, BG and Octopus).

Generally the "big six" are regarded as:

 British Gas, EDF Energy, EON, Npower, Scottish Power and SSE.

And generally we are, after all these years, back to where we were before she sold them off.
The vast majority of the country are on the capped tariff but instead of being supplied by the local electricity board and BG, as pre- sell off, we are supplied basically the same tariff by a mish mash of different companies.

Which was the ironic point I was making.