Civil Enforcement Claim form

C_Angel

Hi everyone, I've been following your threads for some time now and I find them so helpful and informative. 

This is my first time posting a thread so please bear with me. I could really use some advice/support.

I have been back and forth with a parking fine from Civil Enforcement since May 2021.

I parked in a car park in Birmingham in May 2021, which for years before that was just unused land and I used to park there all the time for free. I received a fine in the post for not paying for a parking ticket between 13:49 and 14:13- only 25 minutes!

I appealed twice, because at the time I pulled into the car park to breastfeed my 8-month old baby, and I did not leave the car. There were parking signs there, but I did not see them (and remember I used to park there all the time, it must have only become pay and display recently). After one of the appeals they brought it down from £100 to £60, but I still didn't pay.

They have obviously rejected my appeals because now as it stands, they want to take me to court for £273.

A part of me wants to just pay because I don’t have the fight in me, and the thought of going to court is so daunting and may be more hassle then its worth.

If I appealed this claim, do you think I would have a chance in court?

I don’t have much time left, the issue date of the claim form was 14/09/2022 which makes the date of service 19/09/22, so I haven’t got much time to respond (which is why I’m leaning towards just paying it because I’ve put it off for so long).

Any advice at all would be much appreciated.

*Side note: I also did some digging into the car park area and landowner. The address they put on the fine does not match the address and postcode of the actual car park, if that makes sense? So for the parking fine they put say Coventry road, but the car park in question is actually on Watts road, and the postcodes are completely wrong. I wonder would this help my case?

Thanks

KeithP

C_Angel said:

...the issue date of the claim form was 14/09/2022 which makes the date of service 19/09/22, so I haven’t got much time to respond...

Hello and welcome.

With a Claim Issue Date of 14th September, you have until Monday 3rd October to file an Acknowledgment of Service but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. Don't miss that 3rd October deadline or your Defence becomes due on that date. 

To file an Acknowledgment of Service, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 17th October 2022 to file your Defence.

That's well over two weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service instructions.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

C_Angel

KeithP said:

C_Angel said:

...the issue date of the claim form was 14/09/2022 which makes the date of service 19/09/22, so I haven’t got much time to respond...

Hello and welcome.

With a Claim Issue Date of 14th September, you have until Monday 3rd October to file an Acknowledgment of Service but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. Don't miss that 3rd October deadline or your Defence becomes due on that date. 

To file an Acknowledgment of Service, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 17th October 2022 to file your Defence.

That's well over two weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service instructions.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Thank you very much, appreciated. I have researched how to file my defence if I do proceed in that direction.. I'm just torn as to whether I should. Do they not legally have grounds to say I was in that car park and I didn't pay, whatever my reasons were...

KeithP

C_Angel said:

KeithP said:

C_Angel said:

...the issue date of the claim form was 14/09/2022 which makes the date of service 19/09/22, so I haven’t got much time to respond...

Hello and welcome.

With a Claim Issue Date of 14th September, you have until Monday 3rd October to file an Acknowledgment of Service but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. Don't miss that 3rd October deadline or your Defence becomes due on that date. 

To file an Acknowledgment of Service, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 17th October 2022 to file your Defence.

That's well over two weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service instructions.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Do they not legally have grounds to say I was in that car park and I didn't pay, whatever my reasons were...

No that is simply not the case.

There are many reasons why they cannot do that.
I'll just mention a few...
1) did CEL have conspicuous signs?
2) do CEL have authority to charge people there?
3) have CEL complied with the rules of the BPA?
4) discrepancy on the car park address.
5), 6) and 7) etc, etc, etc.

Do CEL know who was driving?

I think the Equalities Act has something to say about nursing mothers.

Coupon-mad

You do have grounds not to pay this and anyway, the claimed sum now is inflated and is MORE than they'd likely be granted by a Judge.

So it's no-brainer to carry on & defend!

C_Angel

Thank you very much everyone for your support. I will file my acknowledgement of service this weekend. I will compose my defence over the next week or so and post it here for any suggestions/comments if thats ok. Many thanks

Ed2022

Hi @C_Angel

It appears you are not the only one. I have a claim outstanding see here https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79514776#Comment_79514776

For confirmation of address you can log into their portal, ce-service.co.uk and it will give you the address of the alleged car park - 426-428 Coventry Road car park location. On the CCBC N1 form there is no address.

As mentioned in my thread above, it has cropped up before https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6346782/parking-charge-notice-received-from-4-years-ago/p1 and @Waqy1 was caught up in this. Not sure of the outcome.

With some digging in that thread the owner of the car park is the Rex Centre / Unity Insights address of IPCI : Islamic Vision, 434 Coventry Road, Small Heath, Birmingham, B10 0UG).

(Directors of Mr Mirza / Mr Ghafoor / Mr Iqbal / Mr A Khan / Mr S Khan).

Email addresses contacted: info@islamicvision.co.uk & info@ipci-iv.co.uk

They are unsympathetic. The useless advice was cannot cancel it as it is over 10-days and to get in contact with Creative Car Park Management Ltd - still awaiting my SAR, CRP request etc. An unpleasant bunch of folk and no surprise to be honest.

The MP for the area is shabana.mahmood.mp@parliament.uk although only helpful if you are a constituent in this area.

I hope that is helpful.

Ed

C_Angel

Thank you so much @Ed2022, this is really helpful. I can't believe you're dealing with a claim for the exact same car park! I replied on your own thread about messaging the landowners. 

Regarding the inaccuracies between addresses, have you put this in your defence? When you look up the address on their portal it is 426-428 Coventry Road car park. However, the correct address for this Islamic Presentation car park is 23 Watts Road, B10 9RJ.. and I'm sure you can remember too, the entrance to the car park IS actually on Watts road. If you even google the car park you'll get a picture of the car park entrance on Watts Road. 

It would be good if we could work together when compiling defences. 

I honestly feel like paying the owners a visit tomorrow at IPCI Ltd (apparently its a bookstore, so will be open) and requesting they cancel my ticket there and then!

Fruitcake

This is the point I was trying to make on the other threads as I posted here: -

Parking Charge Notice Received from 4 years ago!!! - Page 2 — MoneySavingExpert Forum

The address given on the NTK is not the physical address of the car park, therefore the NTK does not comply with the PoFA because it does not define the relevant land where the alleged event took place.

Photos/GSV images of the address on the NTK quite clearly show that it is a two-storey building with no car park at that location.

C_Angel

Many thanks @Fruitcake, this will definitely be a focal point in my defence.

Ed2022

C_Angel said:

Thank you so much @Ed2022, this is really helpful. I can't believe you're dealing with a claim for the exact same car park! I replied on your own thread about messaging the landowners. 

Regarding the inaccuracies between addresses, have you put this in your defence? When you look up the address on their portal it is 426-428 Coventry Road car park. However, the correct address for this Islamic Presentation car park is 23 Watts Road, B10 9RJ.. and I'm sure you can remember too, the entrance to the car park IS actually on Watts road. If you even google the car park you'll get a picture of the car park entrance on Watts Road. 

It would be good if we could work together when compiling defences. 

I honestly feel like paying the owners a visit tomorrow at IPCI Ltd (apparently its a bookstore, so will be open) and requesting they cancel my ticket there and then!

Shoot sorry i missed this.

I haven't yet but need to formulate a reply. I am going to use the template on the stickied thread. Yes, the entrance is on Watts Road although the address is as you have said quite confusing. A paragraph then would be appropriate somewhere at the beginning after confirming who the keeper is (as should deny being the driver). Perhaps something along the lines that...

"The complaint reports that the vehicle was parked at the aforementioned address however there is no such car park at that address. The keep refutes that such an event took place"

I would perhaps ask the other members of the forum, IPCI might accuse you of harassment. I am sorry to say also being a female, I wouldn't for your own safety. My own sister who was much younger, a taxi driver whose firm was based there hit her car and they were abusive to her and my mother. She had reported to WM police who expectantly did nothing to help.

Given their lack of empathy in the email replies, not worth the hassle. Try the MP for the area as well as your local MP. My local MP wrote to me and has written to CEL or whatever they are called.

Lastly I have received my SAR from CEL - no signage, only the number place of the vehicle but no indication of location. It looks like a screenshot from a CCTV camera.

EDIT: Seen your reply @Fruitcake