Coventry Rugby Butts Park Arena Parking Charge Notice

angrysurg

Hi
I know that Coventry Rugby and the company that manages the car park UKPS has come up before on the forums but things have changed a little since I could find the last one - 2019.
Our son goes to a school local to the rugby club and the school has an arrangement for weekday after school training at the ground. I picked him up for the first time 2 weeks ago and did not know it was pay and display and did not purchase a ticket. Stayed for around 20 mins and left. Received a Parking Charge notice from UKPS yesterday

The car park is around 65m x 40m (2600m2) and unlit. There is one sign as you drive in indicating this is a Pay and Display Car Park with 2 machines in opposite corners. In the whole car park there are 8 UKPS signs attached to boards/railings/fences - none of which are closer than 5 metres to any tarmac where you can park (some as you can see in the photos are much further away). None are illuminated or on posts.

The Parking charge notice is for £100 - and drops to £60 if paid within 14 days. To me this is way to excessive. Around 40-50 parents picked up their children that day and we already know of a number of others (at least 10) who have also been sent a charge.

What's the next move??

A - Ignore it
B - Appeal to UKPS
C - Appeal as a group to UKPS/ Rugby Club/ School / Anyone Else??



C - Appeal to UKPS as a group

Umkomaas

A - Ignore it
B - Appeal to UKPS
C - Appeal as a group to UKPS/ Rugby Club/ School / Anyone Else??

A - No
B - Yes, but individually
C - Yes, to Rugby Club, either individually or as a group. Additionally report this to the school so they can make other parents aware of the need to pay. 

The NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, first post, has a ready to use initial appeal template for you, use it as is, no need for edits/additions. But, be aware that it will be rejected, as all of them are, then you just ignore anything else that comes your way unless it is a Letter Before Claim from UKPS's solicitors or a County Court Claim from the Northampton CCBC. Come back if you get either of those, the forum can help you further. 

The Parking charge notice is for £100 - and drops to £60 if paid within 14 days. To me this is way to excessive.

We agree, but that's the standard at the moment. Govt is stepping in to reduce it by a half, PPCs are fighting back with a Judicial Review, so all on hold pending the JR.  Introduction unlikely until 2024  

As a group, why not complain to your MP?  As a group, set up a group social media page and generate some online 'steam'?  As a group of harassed parents, contact your local press, see if they'll run a story. Kick up a storm any way you can think of. 

angrysurg

Thank you for the reply. Much appreciated.
I know that the appeal to UKPS will 99.9% fail but they specify they are "operating in accordance with the International Parking Community's code of Practice" on the charge.
Having downloaded the latest code of practice from the ICP website it seems in a number of areas they aren't.

- Text Size - "The size of the text on the sign must be appropriate for the location of the sign and should be clearly readable by a Motorist having regard to the likely position of the Motorist in relation to the sign"  - As i noted above and you can see in the pictures there is no way you can read those UKPS signs without getting out of your car, climbing up the grass bank and standing 1 metre in front of them. There is no sign near on of the pay machines and the other machine has a sign on a board 5 metres away.

- Entrance Sign - "Entrance Signs should: a) make it clear that the Motorist is entering onto private land; b) refer the Motorist to the signs within the Car Park which display the full terms and conditions." - Not sure the one entrance sign covers that.

- Signs Displaying Terms and Conditions - "Signs Displaying Terms and Conditions The Operator must adequately display any signs intended to form the basis of contract between the Creditor and the Motorist. Such signs must (in addition to the requirements above):
a. be in sufficient number so that they are clearly visible to Motorists on the Controlled Land;
b. inform the Motorist of all the Terms and Conditions applicable to the use of Vehicles on the Controlled Land;
c. identify yourself as ‘the Creditor’;
d. identify the amount of any charge and explain when it becomes payable;
e. advise Motorists that if a charge remains unpaid for a period of 28 days after issue then an application will be made for the Keeper’s details from DVLA, or, that they may be requested immediately such that a notice may be served on the keeper by post;

a. Not sure 8 signs (50cm x 30cm) over such a big space is sufficient.
b. Not all T and C outlined.
c. Creditor not identified
d. Charges not outlined - (Plus on the main blue board by the pay machine they use the word "Fine" - are they allowed to do this??
e. No timescales outlined

That's just the start. Is it worth putting any of this into the appeal to UKPS?
Thanks

angrysurg

How can they use the word "Fines" on the tariff board??

fine - A fine or is a penalty of money that a court of law or other authority decides has to be paid as punishment for a crime or other offense.

Seriously?? Are these guys officers of the court or auxiliary police??

Umkomaas

That's just the start. Is it worth putting any of this into the appeal to UKPS?

Won't change the outcome. 

If you want to pad it along via the IAS (second stage appeal process, with only a 4% chance of success) you could raise each of the issues, one at a time, which will require UKPS to respond to each as it's raised (letter ping-pong), to see if it grinds them down and they throw their cards in. Has worked in a very small number of cases. 

angrysurg

Thanks
How hard do UKPS chase? all the way to CC?

Umkomaas

angrysurg said:

Thanks
How hard do UKPS chase? all the way to CC?

Not the most litigious of operators, but not benign. Some they will push all the way - but we only see the tip of a massive iceberg on the forum - I suspect many they don't. The caveat is that they do have 6 years to pursue through the courts. It's anybody's guess how your case will proceed. Russian Roulette!

Do a forum search on 'UKPS court claim' to read some cases that have progressed that far.  Be aware that many PPCs issue court claims (some like confetti) as part of the cranking up of pressure on people to cave and pay. In many cases they have no intention of getting as far as court, and often discontinue when they realise the motorist is going to give them a hard fight. Much depends on motorists' resilience and determination to do the legwork in defending the claim.

I'm afraid you and your group are now in the spider's web, with no easy way out.  But, as a group you can draw strength from each other and give UKPS one of the bloodiest fights they've ever had, or you can capitulate and hand them over an easy wad from the collective.  Fight or flight. 

Coupon-mad

I would not try IAS at all. Just one appeal then Ignore them.  Highly unlikely to get a claim from this lot and court is the only fair dispute stage you'd get.

Obviously people ignoring a PPC must email to tell them of any house move. Goes without saying ignore means 'ignore' (and no fretting!) but always read the letters and don't let them use or retain an old address.

angrysurg

What you have suggested seems the way to go.
Thanks for your time and knowledge - you've been very kind

Coupon-mad

Please spread the word for the other victims NOT TO PAY and NOT TO TRY IAS but to do that with knowledge of what else not to do (such as later moving house and not telling UKPS).

AND CERTAINLY not to later panic and pay £170 because they wrongly think a scam debt demand is from bailiffs!