Freehold flat / flying freehold

EllenaVerde2022

I have the opportunity to buy a lovely flat but it is freehold and, after doing some research, it seems that will make it very difficult to get a mortgage. I have spoken to the estate agent but he didn't have a clue about freehold flats and the fact that a mortgage would be difficult, if not impossible to obtain. My question is what effect would the fact the flat is freehold have on the value - I want to make an offer but don't know how much lower than the asking price.

The flat is 1st floor and covers 100% of the flat below so, as I understand it, is also a flying freehold.

If anyone has any idea of the discount I should ask for that would be great.

Ellena

user1977

Surely the first question (if you need a mortgage) is whether you can get a mortgage at all, before you start worrying about the price? Which is still relevant even if it's a cash purchase for you - if it's (effectively) unmortgageable then that's going to make a major difference to the value.

donutandbeer

First of all are you sure it’s a “freehold” flat instead of a “share of freehold” flat?

If it’s 100% flying freehold I would imagine it’s only suitable for cash buyers. The description on the ad will normally state that. The price should reflect the fact that it’s a 100% flying freehold and for cash buyer only, if it has not already. As for how much of a “discount” you can get it for, it really depends on how much other cash buyers are welling to pay for it, and obviously also how much the vendor is welling to sell it for.

Look at the historical sold prices of this place on rightmove, and compare that to other similar properties with no flying freehold in the area - that may give you a clue.

Tiglet2

Why don't you download a copy of the title deeds for this property - making sure it is the legit HM Land Registry website - for £3?  You are likely to see that there are two deeds for the property - one leasehold title and one freehold title. 

Are you looking at a Tyneside flat, or in Scotland? 

gwynlas

Check status, if it is described as freehold it could be a share or if a converted house then you could own the freehold for the entire building. Either way in England and Wales there should also be documentation attached, usually a lease setting out the responsibilty of the other owners beneath. A flying freehold generally means that a room in the flat eg bathroom sits above an entranceway or part of a ground room owned by somebody else. A long leaesehold ie starting at 999 years with a peppercorn rent is sometimes wrongly described as freehold or virtual freehold. Whatever this turns out to be it needs to be legally clarified if you require a mortgage.

EllenaVerde2022

Tiglet2 said:

Why don't you download a copy of the title deeds for this property - making sure it is the legit HM Land Registry website - for £3?  You are likely to see that there are two deeds for the property - one leasehold title and one freehold title. 

Are you looking at a Tyneside flat, or in Scotland? 

I have seen the registry entry and it is definitely freehold without any lease. It isn't in Scotland nor on Tyneside. I lived in a Tyneside flat many years ago so that system but as far as I am aware the general English system is very different

EllenaVerde2022

i meant to say that I know the Tyneside system

eddddy

EllenaVerde2022 said:

I have seen the registry entry and it is definitely freehold without any lease. It isn't in Scotland nor on Tyneside. I lived in a Tyneside flat many years ago so that system but as far as I am aware the general English system is very different

What about the flat downstairs - is that definitely freehold as well? Or is it leasehold?

Sometimes somebody owns a freehold building and converts it into flats. They sell all the flats on leases - except the one they want to live in themselves.

So when they eventually move, they want to sell a freehold building which includes one flat. (FWIW, a previous poster wrongly described that as a freehold flat, which is why it's worth double checking.)

That would be a more straightforward situation to deal with.


... and it sounds like the EA is incompetent, if they can't explain the 'set-up' more clearly.

Richard_Webster

"I have seen the registry entry and it is definitely freehold without any lease."   So what is the extent of the land comprised in the title?   Is it just the flat or is it the whole building?   From what has been said I assume - but you will confirm - that the freehold title is not subject to a lease or leases of other parts of the building.

EllenaVerde2022

Richard_Webster said:

"I have seen the registry entry and it is definitely freehold without any lease."   So what is the extent of the land comprised in the title?   Is it just the flat or is it the whole building?   From what has been said I assume - but you will confirm - that the freehold title is not subject to a lease or leases of other parts of the building.

The title is for the first floor flat and the stairs from the front door to the flat. There is also a portion of the front garden just sufficient for the path that leads to the front door. The ground floor flat is a different title number and includes the front garden (except the path to the 1st floor flat). There aren't any leases.

loubel

As a true freehold flat then you almost certainly won't get a mortgage on it and it will be very hard to sell on in future. So any offer would need to take that into account. Bear in mind as well that it being a freehold flat could pose legal difficulties and your solicitor will need to check how this has been dealt with in the title. It would have to be dirt cheap for most people to go near and ideally you would want to have a discussion with the other flat owner to seek to resolve by creating leases of the flats.