Visitation Rights to Family Home - Sibling Residing. And deeds!

p00hsticks

MadMonkey007 said:

RAS said:

MadMonkey007 said:

RAS said:

Start by checking that the property is not registered: Search for land and property information - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Costs £3; don't get fleeced by the fakenames who charge 10 times as much.

Then come back here.

I now have the Title Register (Deeds??).  It confirms my parents as owners, my father is listed but passed over 20 years ago.

Is there anything specific I should be looking for (this is new to me).

Good, because you can all stop "asking for the deeds." Even if your parents still had the old documents they are only of sentimental value.

But if the property was not registered, the executor would struggle to sell it.

Check for are any charges against the property. People occasionally find old charges for debt, equity release about which no-one knew anything, and even situation where the old mortgage provider hasn't lifted their charge although it's paid.

Excellent, thank you.

Which section shows if the property was registered?  Section A list the property as freehold filed at the Registry.  And Section B has both parents listed in the Proprietorship section.

Just the fact that you've been able to obtain the property details from the Land Registry show that it;s been registered. If it hadn;t have been then you wouldn't have found anything.

getmore4less

MadMonkey007 said:

naedanger said:

MadMonkey007 said:

naedanger said:

Why is the eldest sister not willing to keep the verbal agreement she made with her mother and her siblings?

If she won't keep her verbal agreements I don't think she should be surprised when others don't either.

While she is obligated to follow the Will that does not prevent her keeping her word.

Also if she is following the Will to the letter then what does the Will say should happen to your late mother's personal possessions? 

All I can think of, is that three of us flew the family home, got full-time jobs and had kids, while the youngest just stayed at home and got a part-time job after uni.  A life lesson maybe.

The eldest will not change her mind, even if its three against one.  My sisters are all very stubborn.

Any named items in the Will have already been gifted to each of us.  I think in case they disappeared.

It is all one giant mess.

Yes, it does seem a mess. But unless you can persuade your eldest sister to keep her word then I think it likely you may end up with a permanent family rift and lots of unpleasantness on all sides (that possibly might be costly). 

The eldest, on multiple occasions, has stated she won't change her mind.

I think the rift has been building prior to mum's passing, but nothing said as mum was still around.

Sounds like oldest never intended letting youngest have the house. 

If mum was giving stuff away due to lack of trust should have changed her will, could have left the property or even mid ground a life interest..

Marmaduke123

Who is paying the household bills at the moment? Can the youngest sister afford these and maintenance of the house on her part time income? Perhaps she will also inherit sufficient cash for this not to be an issue? 

MadMonkey007

Deleted_User said:

MadMonkey007 said:

naedanger said:

Why is the eldest sister not willing to keep the verbal agreement she made with her mother and her siblings?

If she won't keep her verbal agreements I don't think she should be surprised when others don't either.

While she is obligated to follow the Will that does not prevent her keeping her word.

Also if she is following the Will to the letter then what does the Will say should happen to your late mother's personal possessions? 

All I can think of, is that three of us flew the family home, got full-time jobs and had kids, while the youngest just stayed at home and got a part-time job after uni.  A life lesson maybe.

The eldest will not change her mind, even if its three against one.  My sisters are all very stubborn.

Any named items in the Will have already been gifted to each of us.  I think in case they disappeared.

It is all one giant mess.

This all sounds wrong and like bullying to me. You all agree that your mums dying wish was for the youngest to have the house why not just give it to her? Assuming you respect your mother's wishes and not blinded by money/greed. 

If your sister wants to work part time, that's her business. I have 3 brothers and I'm the only who owns a property and earns over £30k a year. Of course, I would love to inherit some significant cash (I'm hardly rolling in it), but understand my situation is different from the others. My mum asked my about inheritance and my suggestion was she give it to the 2 other siblings so they can get on the property ladder and build some generational wealth.

Your mums dying wish was for the youngest to have the property and you ALL agreed to it. Just follow her damn dying wish and stop being snakes by reneging on it. Should have brought your issues up before she passed. 

The youngest has been given ample space and time to sort things, the eldest is getting frustrated by no apparent action.  Is it bullying? Border line maybe.  But I would argue the youngest is being unreasonable.

I was the original Executor, I'm the oldest by the way, but was told in no uncertain terms I wouldn't be allowed into the house to collect paperwork, it would all be retrieved for me.  I made a simple request for mum's address book to contact extended family, its the only think I ever requested, I was point blank refused by all three sisters.  Anyway, I spoke to the solicitor, and they advised to renounce it, hence the next oldest taking the task.

It would've been my intention to follow mum's dying wish to the letter.  The eldest did say (to the youngest) she'd honour it to, but at some point she changed her stance.

The eldest has point blank said she will follow the Will to the letter, she will not change her mind.  So it doesn't matter how many of us are against her, and that's the problem.  I've offered multiple solutions to try move forward, and nobody is interested in hearing.

MadMonkey007

Marmaduke123 said:

Who is paying the household bills at the moment? Can the youngest sister afford these and maintenance of the house on her part time income? Perhaps she will also inherit sufficient cash for this not to be an issue? 

The youngest sister lives there, so is paying all the bills.

She unfortunately wrote her car off months ago, I suspect she used the pay-out from that to keep things going.

Ironically, I did say months ago that its a family home and bills are looking like going through the roof.  The youngest is the type of person who will wander around the house with a tee and shorts on, feel cold, and have the heating on full all day - witnessed this many times in past when visiting.

There is no way her PT income will cover the bills, that safety margin has been crossed :-S

p00hsticks

MadMonkey007 said:

Deleted_User said:

MadMonkey007 said:

naedanger said:

Why is the eldest sister not willing to keep the verbal agreement she made with her mother and her siblings?

If she won't keep her verbal agreements I don't think she should be surprised when others don't either.

While she is obligated to follow the Will that does not prevent her keeping her word.

Also if she is following the Will to the letter then what does the Will say should happen to your late mother's personal possessions? 

All I can think of, is that three of us flew the family home, got full-time jobs and had kids, while the youngest just stayed at home and got a part-time job after uni.  A life lesson maybe.

The eldest will not change her mind, even if its three against one.  My sisters are all very stubborn.

Any named items in the Will have already been gifted to each of us.  I think in case they disappeared.

It is all one giant mess.

This all sounds wrong and like bullying to me. You all agree that your mums dying wish was for the youngest to have the house why not just give it to her? Assuming you respect your mother's wishes and not blinded by money/greed. 

If your sister wants to work part time, that's her business. I have 3 brothers and I'm the only who owns a property and earns over £30k a year. Of course, I would love to inherit some significant cash (I'm hardly rolling in it), but understand my situation is different from the others. My mum asked my about inheritance and my suggestion was she give it to the 2 other siblings so they can get on the property ladder and build some generational wealth.

Your mums dying wish was for the youngest to have the property and you ALL agreed to it. Just follow her damn dying wish and stop being snakes by reneging on it. Should have brought your issues up before she passed. 

It would've been my intention to follow mum's dying wish to the letter.  The eldest did say (to the youngest) she'd honour it to, but at some point she changed her stance.

The eldest has point blank said she will follow the Will to the letter, she will not change her mind.  So it doesn't matter how many of us are against her, and that's the problem.  I've offered multiple solutions to try move forward, and nobody is interested in hearing.

As people are telling you, an executor has no choice BUT to follow the Will to the letter - that's their responsibility.

It's unfortunate that your mother appears to have changed her mind about what she wanted after writing the will, but it's what's in the will that has to be carried out.

If you feel strongly that you want to honour your mothers dying wishes there is nothing to stop you putting a deed of variation in place to pass your share on to your sister.

Malthusian

MadMonkey007 said:

The youngest has been given ample space and time to sort things, the eldest is getting frustrated by no apparent action.  Is it bullying? Border line maybe.  But I would argue the youngest is being unreasonable.

If people give you 12 months' free accommodation there is nothing unreasonable about using it. 

The eldest has point blank said she will follow the Will to the letter, she will not change her mind.  So it doesn't matter how many of us are against her, and that's the problem. 

Not a problem, just the law and your mother's wishes as to who received her property. Your mother could have amended her Will at any time to leave the home to the youngest. For good reason the law says that last-minute changes of heart by people on their deathbed are only legally binding if they give them legal force in a Will.

The youngest sister is presumably a grown adult and can decide for herself where she wants to live when her 12 months is up. If she decides to dig her heels in, the oldest will have to force a sale. Hopefully she will see sense, as everyone would lose from court action including her.

After the twelve months is up, either the youngest sister will have moved out and the oldest can get on with the sale, or the oldest will have to see a solicitor and start forcing it. There is nothing you need to do except leave them to it. 

If you and the other middle sister want to stick to your mother's dying wish, no-one is stopping you. When the property is sold you simply hand over your respective shares of the cash to the youngest. *edit* As others have said, you could both use a Deed of Variation to avoid a risk of adverse Inheritance Tax consequences - bear in mind that this needs to be done within two years of the date of death. 

TBagpuss

Your eldest sister, as the xecutor, has a duty to implement the terms of the will, and she is also entitledto go int othe proerpty, she would nornally be doing things like nesuring that it is insured until tit can be sold, making an inventory of the things that belonged to your mum, and eitherdistributing them in aordance withthe will, or selling them to add the money to the estate. 

IT sounds as though your eldest sister should perhaps be getting a bit a legal advice so she is clear about where she stands. 

Rougly how much will each of you have from the estate once the house is sold? Will youngest's 25% be enough for her to use a deposit to buy a smaller property with a small mortgage, for instnace? If the other sister wants to gift some or all of her share to youngest she is free to do so, (and a deed of variation only has to be agreed by those affected, so if she wants to do a deeed that varies the will to provide for25 % each to you and eldest, and 50% to youngest, that doesn't need your or eldest's agreement as you would not either of ypu affected. Equally, if you want to, you'd be free to gift some or all of your share .

Sea_Shell

Maybe your eldest agreed "verbally" to the youngest keeping the house, just to keep everyone sweet.  But knowing full well what the will said, and knew it (verbal) wouldn't be be enforceable.


Or she could have simply changed her mind.   

Maybe her own circumstances have changed and she now doesn't feel she can just right off 1/4 of mums estate.

It's easier to write off money "in theory" but harder once it becomes real.

Maybe.

MadMonkey007

TBagpuss said:

Your eldest sister, as the xecutor, has a duty to implement the terms of the will, and she is also entitledto go int othe proerpty, she would nornally be doing things like nesuring that it is insured until tit can be sold, making an inventory of the things that belonged to your mum, and eitherdistributing them in aordance withthe will, or selling them to add the money to the estate. 

IT sounds as though your eldest sister should perhaps be getting a bit a legal advice so she is clear about where she stands. 

Rougly how much will each of you have from the estate once the house is sold? Will youngest's 25% be enough for her to use a deposit to buy a smaller property with a small mortgage, for instnace? If the other sister wants to gift some or all of her share to youngest she is free to do so, (and a deed of variation only has to be agreed by those affected, so if she wants to do a deeed that varies the will to provide for25 % each to you and eldest, and 50% to youngest, that doesn't need your or eldest's agreement as you would not either of ypu affected. Equally, if you want to, you'd be free to gift some or all of your share .

I think you are correct about the legal advice.  That said, the eldest did state 12 months, and if the youngest wasn't sorted she wouldn't be "kicked out".  I suspect the youngest will stay as long as possible.

As far as I'm aware no inventory has been performed.  And as the youngest won't talk to the oldest, let alone allow her into the property, I can't see this happening.  The middle sister let slip that some stuff has been sorted already, so much for us all doing it together.

The house is probably worth £80/90k.  I've suggested an apartment for around £60k, no outside space to look after and just about zero maintenance cost, she wants a house :-S  If I gifted my 25%, that'd really help.  However the middle sister is a mystery, she fully supports the youngest, but she has been on about her share for her children - she her share is not guaranteed by any means.

I know I should gift my %, but I'm the first one to be treated as a pariah by all three of my lovely sisters.  I keep reaching out to the youngest, but she does not talk to me either.