Paper tiger

2

Comments

  • Ok let's take it to a specific issue. I wasn't going to because I was simply stating that as consumers we have to sometimes fight to get something back and it's all very well saying "take them to the small claims court".

    So here is MY specific issue. 

    I bought a car for 2k from a dealer.  I wasn't expecting anything bright and gleaming.  
    I wasn't bothered about cosmetics. I simply wanted a car fit for purpose.

    Within a day. It developed a missfire. The air vents didn't work. Five of the seven seats were contaminated with oil.

    The dealer told me to take it to the garage he uses. I spent a day off work waiting for them to fix the faults.  They couldn't fix the air vents. They couldn't fix the seats. 
    The missfire came back on my way home.
    As is my right, I rejected the car. The dealer said no. He will sort it out. I then receive an email one week later. "The car didn't have oil on the seats when we valeted it. The missfire has gone. The warranty will cover the repair needed for the air vents".
    I replied basically saying no thanks. I wish to reject the car as I stated 2 weeks ago.

    The dealer has now had the car for 4 weeks. I have no idea where it is or if he has even attempted to fix it.
    He has not responded to my emails and is never around when I phone. 
    So now I have to take another day off work to go and get the car back so I can take it off the road so I can reject it.

    I hear where people say,just hand him the keys. Oh really?;The car is in my name (though I haven't actually received theV5; through the post yet. (I bought the car almost 6;weeks ago). I cannot cancel the road tax or insurance because not knowing where the car is parked I need to keep it road legal.

    I could go on but for all THIS, the best outcome I can hope to achieve is to get back the money I paid for the car.

    The worst outcome for the dealer would be he has to give back the money he made on the car. But he will still have the car to sell again. Where is his incentive to do anything? How many people might just say, enough is enough. With taxi fares and bus tickets, ruined clothes and days off work, I have lost at least £500. The dealer has lost 0.
  • Also you made the washing machine 2;years old when I am talking about the short term right to reject. What if the washing machine was 2 months old. There is no incentive for him to do anything untill he is forced. Where is the incentive? A bad review? No repeat trade? 
  • Alderbank
    Alderbank Posts: 2,804 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post Name Dropper
    I think we all get that you don't think much of our current consumer protection laws, and you are probably not alone in that.

    What changes do you think Parliament should make?
  • eskbanker
    eskbanker Posts: 30,927 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper Photogenic First Post
    Alderbank said:
    I think we all get that you don't think much of our current consumer protection laws, and you are probably not alone in that.

    What changes do you think Parliament should make?
    It seems to me that OP isn't particularly concerned about the consumer protection laws themselves as such, but is frustrated by the realisation that their enforcement through the courts is inherently limited....
  • pulliptears
    pulliptears Posts: 14,575 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary Photogenic
    Whilst I get the meaning of the phrase, paper tiger is also a store in its own right.  Might be worth amending the title slightly.
  • MalMonroe
    MalMonroe Posts: 5,783 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 25 September 2022 at 8:35PM
    Hi, if you used a credit card you can use a Section 75 claim. 

    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/section75-protect-your-purchases/

    You can appeal to the Motoring Ombudsman (but only if the seller is part of their scheme) 

    https://www.themotorombudsman.org/consumers/make-a-complaint

    You can contact your local media and ask them to publish your story.

    You can shame the seller online.

    Five years ago I bought a cheap old banger from my (now estranged) car mechanic's small business and it went wrong a week later. He wouldn't take it back or refund me so I started a Section 75 claim. He ended up having to refund me as well as giving me compensation for all the inconvenience. It took a few months, granted. But I would never let cheats get away with taking my money. Just because you may buy a car cheap doesn't mean that you don't have rights. Lots of negatives there but generally, if someone is selling something, it has to be 'fit for purpose'. 

    Bringing a claim to court costs and if you don't win the case, you end up having to pay. I'd try all the free routes first.

    Which magazine says - 

    https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the-car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights-aAnMC5b0ZzJb

    There are definitely ways and means of getting your money back. There are Ombuds-people (I can't say ombudsmen because some of them are women) for almost everything these days. And you can appeal to them. 

    It's a bit late now but it's always worth a quick google of 'check my car'. It's a government site and you can find out if there are any problems with a vehicle and there's the valuable MOT history check. If a car's had a lot of 'fails' or expensive problems, you can check there before you part with any money. I learned that too late for my car buying faux pas.

    You can always report the dealer as well, for running a dodgy business. 

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/report-someone-making-or-selling-unsafe-or-illegal-vehicles-or-parts

    And you can tell him that's what you intend to do as well. But only if you are in a well-lit area with a couple of friends.

    I do hope you manage to get a satisfactory result because I know what it's like, I've been through something very similar. I did win in the end, though, if that is of any consolation at all.

    PS Not all single parents are on benefits. I was (still am) a single parent and have never been on benefits in my life. 
    Please note - taken from the Forum Rules and amended for my own personal use (with thanks) : It is up to you to investigate, check, double-check and check yet again before you make any decisions or take any action based on any information you glean from any of my posts. Although I do carry out careful research before posting and never intend to mislead or supply out-of-date or incorrect information, please do not rely 100% on what you are reading. Verify everything in order to protect yourself as you are responsible for any action you consequently take.
  • eskbanker said:
    Alderbank said:
    I think we all get that you don't think much of our current consumer protection laws, and you are probably not alone in that.

    What changes do you think Parliament should make?
    It seems to me that OP isn't particularly concerned about the consumer protection laws themselves as such, but is frustrated by the realisation that their enforcement through the courts is inherently limited....

    Two points really. The first is people believe that the law will protect them and in some cases it clearly doesn't. It doesn't because there is no real incentive (other than good will,bad publicity etc) to do so. 
    This forum is full of people who have been shafted and who have had a raw deal. People who have seen their hard earned money thrown down the drain.

    When they ask for advice the best they can be offered is If all else fails take them to court. Like doing that is going to have the trader running for the hills. 
    It's not quite snake oil. But if feels to me like snake oil is the best we have got. 

    Yes it is civil law but so is a parking ticket. Admit the offence and take the penalty or dispute it and If found not in your favour, pay a bigger penalty.  
    I'm not saying I have any answers. But one look on these forums shows it's not a great system. I know some people are successful but the trouble they have to go through just to get back to where they started is ridiculous. 
  • sheramber
    sheramber Posts: 19,047 Forumite
    First Anniversary I've been Money Tipped! First Post Name Dropper
    Also you made the washing machine 2;years old when I am talking about the short term right to reject. What if the washing machine was 2 months old. There is no incentive for him to do anything untill he is forced. Where is the incentive? A bad review? No repeat trade? 
    At two months old the mahine would have the manufacturer's warranty, so a claim would be made under that.
  • What if the manufacturer says no? In any case. The contract is with the trader not the manufacturer. 
  • MalMonroe said:
    Hi, if you used a credit card you can use a Section 75 claim. 

    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/section75-protect-your-purchases/

    You can appeal to the Motoring Ombudsman (but only if the seller is part of their scheme) 

    https://www.themotorombudsman.org/consumers/make-a-complaint

    You can contact your local media and ask them to publish your story.

    You can shame the seller online.

    Five years ago I bought a cheap old banger from my (now estranged) car mechanic's small business and it went wrong a week later. He wouldn't take it back or refund me so I started a Section 75 claim. He ended up having to refund me as well as giving me compensation for all the inconvenience. It took a few months, granted. But I would never let cheats get away with taking my money. Just because you may buy a car cheap doesn't mean that you don't have rights. Lots of negatives there but generally, if someone is selling something, it has to be 'fit for purpose'. 

    Bringing a claim to court costs and if you don't win the case, you end up having to pay. I'd try all the free routes first.

    Which magazine says - 

    https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the-car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights-aAnMC5b0ZzJb

    There are definitely ways and means of getting your money back. There are Ombuds-people (I can't say ombudsmen because some of them are women) for almost everything these days. And you can appeal to them. 

    It's a bit late now but it's always worth a quick google of 'check my car'. It's a government site and you can find out if there are any problems with a vehicle and there's the valuable MOT history check. If a car's had a lot of 'fails' or expensive problems, you can check there before you part with any money. I learned that too late for my car buying faux pas.

    You can always report the dealer as well, for running a dodgy business. 

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/report-someone-making-or-selling-unsafe-or-illegal-vehicles-or-parts

    And you can tell him that's what you intend to do as well. But only if you are in a well-lit area with a couple of friends.

    I do hope you manage to get a satisfactory result because I know what it's like, I've been through something very similar. I did win in the end, though, if that is of any consolation at all.

    PS Not all single parents are on benefits. I was (still am) a single parent and have never been on benefits in my life. 
    There isn't anything wrong with being a single parent on benefits. But being on them sure isn't an easy ride. More so when a relatively expensive bit of equipment fails.  As you pointed, out all those things you CAN do to force somebody to actually do what is lawfully required of them. 

    In what way are they (the trader) punished for ignoring or defying a law legislated in parliament?  I'm just trying to think of another law where one can completely ignore it and not suffer any consequences? I'm sure there must be??
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