Requesting refund from Landlord- Best practise?

tdw91

Hi, 

I contacted a law firm to advise on a potential claim for a partial refund of rent we have against our ex-landlord due to negligence and considerable disrepair. After speaking on the phone, they said we had one of the stronger cases that they'd seen, but as the total for the claim would not amount to over £10,000 they would not be able to take it on. 

This smaller amount is mostly due to the fact we vacated the property as soon as contractually possible (after 7 months). We have mountains of evidence in the form of months of constant chasing by email/telephone to the lettings agent, with lots of photographic evidence. It paints a very clear picture of a completely miserable experience for us, with a multitude of problems including holes in the roof and ceiling, leaking, water damage and severe mold buildup in just a few months. 

As per the law firm's advice, we intend to pursue this ourselves without using any solicitors etc. and I had a few questions about best practices when writing the Landlord an initial letter formally requesting a partial refund of the rent we paid him (always in full and on time) due to his clear negligence of responsibilities laid out in the tenancy agreement.

A few questions: 

1. At this stage would we mention small claims court is at the back of our minds if he refuses to engage in any discourse/attempt at resolution?
2. How long would we give him to reply and then do we follow up if he ignores it?
3. Do we present him with all of our evidence so he can clearly see just how bad it was for us, or do we just give a summary of problems and save all of the evidence for later if needed?

Judging by his negligence and lack of responsibilities during the tenancy, I am expecting this to be long and drawn out, so I want to ensure I do everything I can correctly. 

Retireby40

How much do you believe you are owed? 

Are you saying that when you inspected the house before moving in it was like new and suddenly over say 3 months all these problems started occurring?

lincroft1710

What percentage of the rent do you consider should be refunded? How did the rent compare with other similar properties in the area? Did you suffer any monetary loss due to the condition of the property?

deannagone

Did you call in Environmental Health over these problems?  It would help your claim that the property was unliveable if Environmental Health declared the property unliveable.  If not, your claim will only be for damages, I suspect.  Whatever the legal firm said, if they could have made a profit out of representing you, they would have done.  The fact that they didn't take the case on would give me pause for thought in your position.  Again, whatever they said, either the case cost was going to be too expensive to be worth their while, or there was no legal case they could win.  

[Deleted User]

It sounds like a very bad experience that you have had but the questions which are immediately arising reflect the reality that not many people in your position will have take all of the steps necessary to form a good case. From a lay persons point of view, you've done very well, sent emails, kept records - bravo. But will that be enough?

Certain thoughts immediately triggered as I read your post. If Notice was to be in writing as per the contract, then of what standing in terms of evidence are  your emails and telephone calls when requesting repairs?

Then, as soon as you started to mention the leaks, I am thinking about environmental health, who are basically an authority in terms of the property being of a habitable standard, and getting them in when you are present. You made no mention of this which is maybe surprising in the sense that if the property was that bad, wouldn't you obviously have contacted them!  Or perhaps its actually unsurprising as you managed to continue to live in the property, so how bad was it....

On the last point, I'm not trying to demean your terrible experience entirely. But the question as to how much compensation you might be due is one for Courts and it makes the risk reward of a claim very hard to speculate at this stage. A starting point could be the fact that you continued living in the property for some time after these problems became apparant. Did anyone develop any health conditions as a result (I hope not). Your medical evidence? 

Summary - doubtul as to the evidence, and doubtful as to the compensation being anywhere near your expectations.

jj_43

Attempts to reach agreement before court is always looked at favourably by the courts. You might look at the Property Redress Scheme for further information. If the landlord is not part of a redress scheme he could join and you can both start there.

There is no best practice about mentioning the small claims court, it's a given.

If the landlord is not interested in reaching an agreement outside of the courts then go straight to the small claim process. The landlord has the option to countersue if there were problems on your side.

tdw91

Retireby40 said:

How much do you believe you are owed? 

Are you saying that when you inspected the house before moving in it was like new and suddenly over say 3 months all these problems started occurring?

Within a month the leak was pouring into the bedroom and mold was starting to form. This and other issues, including no hot water and a faulty heating system were not apparent from our initial viewing. 

In terms of putting a number on it, I believe a 1/3 of the total rent paid would be reasonable, given 1/3 of the bedrooms and of the tenants suffered miserable conditions. 

Nothing irks me more than the fact that he was able to pocket that premium monthly charge in full, yet we had a miserable experience, constantly wasting time chasing him to make these repairs. Are there no repercussions for him?

tdw91

jj_43 said:

Attempts to reach agreement before court is always looked at favourably by the courts. You might look at the Property Redress Scheme for further information. If the landlord is not part of a redress scheme he could join and you can both start there.

There is no best practice about mentioning the small claims court, it's a given.

If the landlord is not interested in reaching an agreement outside of the courts then go straight to the small claim process. The landlord has the option to countersue if there were problems on your side.

Yes, we would of course prefer to approach this in a way that we could look to avoid court altogether- I will look at the Property Redress Scheme as another option. 

tdw91

[Deleted User] said:

It sounds like a very bad experience that you have had but the questions which are immediately arising reflect the reality that not many people in your position will have take all of the steps necessary to form a good case. From a lay persons point of view, you've done very well, sent emails, kept records - bravo. But will that be enough?

Certain thoughts immediately triggered as I read your post. If Notice was to be in writing as per the contract, then of what standing in terms of evidence are  your emails and telephone calls when requesting repairs?

Then, as soon as you started to mention the leaks, I am thinking about environmental health, who are basically an authority in terms of the property being of a habitable standard, and getting them in when you are present. You made no mention of this which is maybe surprising in the sense that if the property was that bad, wouldn't you obviously have contacted them!  Or perhaps its actually unsurprising as you managed to continue to live in the property, so how bad was it....

On the last point, I'm not trying to demean your terrible experience entirely. But the question as to how much compensation you might be due is one for Courts and it makes the risk reward of a claim very hard to speculate at this stage. A starting point could be the fact that you continued living in the property for some time after these problems became apparant. Did anyone develop any health conditions as a result (I hope not). Your medical evidence? 

Summary - doubtul as to the evidence, and doubtful as to the compensation being anywhere near your expectations.

Thank you for your points. 

In terms of what the contract actually states:

Tenant Responsibility

To inform the Landlord or the Landlord’s Agent in writing immediately of any repairs or other matters falling within the Landlord’s obligations to repair the Property as set out in this agreement  

We did this, with a lot of urgency, plenty of photographs (all documented in emails).

Landlords Responsibility

To comply with the obligations to repair the Property as set out in sections 11 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 (as amended by the Housing Act 1988 and 1996). These sections impose on the Landlord obligations to repair the structure of the Property and exterior .... This obligation arises only after notice has been given to the Landlord by the Tenant as set out in clause 12.2 and to reply to any written request or notification from the Tenant within fourteen days of a written submission and to carry out any necessary work to remedy the defect within a reasonable time of being notified. 

(Firstly, he did not respond to any of our emails informing him. Sometimes the lettings agent would, but often it would just be some kind of half-assed apology. He also took 5 months from being notified, to make the repair.

I understand that we could have involved the environmental health board, but in all honestly, we are all extremely busy with demanding jobs/lives (like anyone), and with us already spending hours and hours chasing his agent we just moved out as soon as we were contractually allowed to. It really is a nightmare to have to pack up and leave a property, and it isn't viable to do at a moment's notice.  

I guess it comes down to, do we really have to become ill or ruin our property to expect to be refunded the money we paid for a service? 

Or is the person charging us this premium allowed to defy the terms of service laid out in the contract they signed, in the most blatant way, simply allowed to just face no repercussions and keep the money they took from us in good faith?

tdw91

deannagone said:

Did you call in Environmental Health over these problems?  It would help your claim that the property was unliveable if Environmental Health declared the property unliveable.  If not, your claim will only be for damages, I suspect.  Whatever the legal firm said, if they could have made a profit out of representing you, they would have done.  The fact that they didn't take the case on would give me pause for thought in your position.  Again, whatever they said, either the case cost was going to be too expensive to be worth their while, or there was no legal case they could win.  

This is a great point, but they were very sincere that the photos I had sent them were some of the worst they had seen. The lawyer did advise that I call around and seek advice/possible representation from other firms (again their firm will only take on claims that are equal to 10,000 or more). But she essentially said, it would be very easy to take this to a small claims court myself. I think it would be wise to get several more legal opinions before going in guns blazing!

pinkshoes

tdw91 said:

(Firstly, he did not respond to any of our emails informing him. Sometimes the lettings agent would, but often it would just be some kind of half-assed apology. He also took 5 months from being notified, to make the repair.

I understand that we could have involved the environmental health board, but in all honestly, we are all extremely busy with demanding jobs/lives (like anyone), and with us already spending hours and hours chasing his agent we just moved out as soon as we were contractually allowed to. It really is a nightmare to have to pack up and leave a property, and it isn't viable to do at a moment's notice.  

I guess it comes down to, do we really have to become ill or ruin our property to expect to be refunded the money we paid for a service? 

You were so busy you didn't have time to send a quick email with photos to Environmental Health, but spent hours chasing the agent and now have time to speak to lots of lawyers about suing the landlord??

A call to EH would have sorted this out very quickly. They would have condemned the property and the LL would have had to either end the tenancy or pay for you to live elsewhere. 

I appreciate it wasn't pleasant living there, but think carefully about what you want to achieve from this or whether it might be best just to move on and not make the same mistake again. 

You don't need a lawyer for this. It's a simple small claims case, but you need to QUANTIFY your losses. 

Receipts for bleach and cleaning materials that you needed to get rid of the mould? Phone bills and emails to show TIME taken trying to contact landlord and agent? (claim at a reasonably hourly rate).

You say you want to claw 1/3 of the rent back, but you then said "1/3 of the bedrooms and of the tenants suffered miserable condition" - did the tenant carry on using the bedroom?!?! It is going to be rather tricky proving it if the tenant kept using it. Also, it's 1 bedroom not 1/3 of the property.

If you are a busy person, just think what you're going to get from this...