Realistic pension gains?

Dh6

B0bbyEwing said:

Dh6 said:

I have a relatively adventurous portfolio at 35 ( 80% global equities 20% cash ) but I’m working on my long term investment gains being 1% above inflation and working back from there to see what percentage of my income I need to save NOW.

Sounds like you have a plan, which is always good.

Stupid question time - how do you do that? I don't mean how do you have a plan but how do you do the calculation in the above quote & then work back to see what you need to put in now?

Just using a simple spreadsheet. We worked out that my wife and I would like between 32-35k pa for retirement from 55. 

I plugged these numbers into a spreadsheet and worked out at a 1% above inflation rate of return would mean we could achieve our goal. 

Lower returns would obviously mean having to contribute more to achieve the same outcome. If we achieve above 1% we could retire earlier or go part time or have more than our target of 32-35k pa from 55.

kind regards DH

JohnWinder

I think you need to know your annual spending as you start retirement. Assume it’s what you spend today (ignore mortgage if you won’t have one then, etc) and assume no inflation/deflation from now till then.
Now apply the ‘4% rule’, and your investments need to be worth 25 times your annual spend (less any guaranteed inflation linked income like state pension) when you hit retirement.
And last step, if you can’t get a spreadsheet working, use an online compound interest calculator, entering how much your investments are worth now, how many years to retirement, how much your investments should grow each year (real, not nominal - so, perhaps 2%/year), then test out a few different entries for how much you’ll need to add to your investments each year so as to reach your retirement target in the time available. Do a sensitivity analysis with the time to retirement, annual returns as well. Revise the estimate every 4 or 5 years. Make sense?

LV_426

Workerdrone said:

The above comment made me chuckle. I have always worked in very technical industries. I've had plenty of opportunity over the years to watch people come in and rocket up the greasy pole. I'm not sure how it compares with other industries but the pattern is always the same. Person joins who is clearly ambitious but lacks the skill and more importantly the passion for the brass tacks job. They ingratiate and often schmooze their way into promotions after very little time often zigzagging to get to a high salary where no technical skills are required.Such people are brilliantly lampooned in the character of Gilbert's pointed haired boss.

The sort of people I work with are on average late 50's onwards, rocket scientist types. Ive seen many of them actively refuse to move into higher paid management positions because its not something they love doing. I similarly have no such pretensions. 

I am also that person. It sometimes makes me laugh that these people you talk about have no discernible technical skills, and are simply good at spouting BS. Which I suppose is a skill in itself, that I don't possess. I sometimes wonder why such people are not seen through, but then I realise they're talking to similar minded BS specialists.
Anyway, let them schmooze away and get those high salary BS jobs. I'm happy being a 'worker drone' and getting paid enough to suit my needs. My role interests me, for the most part. Besides, the more you earn, the more garbage you buy. It just scales up.

Albermarle

LV_426 said:

Workerdrone said:

The above comment made me chuckle. I have always worked in very technical industries. I've had plenty of opportunity over the years to watch people come in and rocket up the greasy pole. I'm not sure how it compares with other industries but the pattern is always the same. Person joins who is clearly ambitious but lacks the skill and more importantly the passion for the brass tacks job. They ingratiate and often schmooze their way into promotions after very little time often zigzagging to get to a high salary where no technical skills are required.Such people are brilliantly lampooned in the character of Gilbert's pointed haired boss.

The sort of people I work with are on average late 50's onwards, rocket scientist types. Ive seen many of them actively refuse to move into higher paid management positions because its not something they love doing. I similarly have no such pretensions. 

I am also that person. It sometimes makes me laugh that these people you talk about have no discernible technical skills, and are simply good at spouting BS. Which I suppose is a skill in itself, that I don't possess. I sometimes wonder why such people are not seen through, but then I realise they're talking to similar minded BS specialists.
Anyway, let them schmooze away and get those high salary BS jobs. I'm happy being a 'worker drone' and getting paid enough to suit my needs. My role interests me, for the most part. Besides, the more you earn, the more garbage you buy. It just scales up.

On the other hand people with technical skills that are promoted, often lack man management/political skills and this can cause stress for all concerned.

billy2shots

Albermarle said:

LV_426 said:

Workerdrone said:

The above comment made me chuckle. I have always worked in very technical industries. I've had plenty of opportunity over the years to watch people come in and rocket up the greasy pole. I'm not sure how it compares with other industries but the pattern is always the same. Person joins who is clearly ambitious but lacks the skill and more importantly the passion for the brass tacks job. They ingratiate and often schmooze their way into promotions after very little time often zigzagging to get to a high salary where no technical skills are required.Such people are brilliantly lampooned in the character of Gilbert's pointed haired boss.

The sort of people I work with are on average late 50's onwards, rocket scientist types. Ive seen many of them actively refuse to move into higher paid management positions because its not something they love doing. I similarly have no such pretensions. 

I am also that person. It sometimes makes me laugh that these people you talk about have no discernible technical skills, and are simply good at spouting BS. Which I suppose is a skill in itself, that I don't possess. I sometimes wonder why such people are not seen through, but then I realise they're talking to similar minded BS specialists.
Anyway, let them schmooze away and get those high salary BS jobs. I'm happy being a 'worker drone' and getting paid enough to suit my needs. My role interests me, for the most part. Besides, the more you earn, the more garbage you buy. It just scales up.

On the other hand people with technical skills that are promoted, often lack man management/political skills and this can cause stress for all concerned.

Was just about to write the same thing. 

Every business is the same as far as I'm concerned. 

We need the hard non technical workers to get the jobs done that others don't want to do. 

We need the technical members of the team to fulfill the specialist role they have been employed to do. 

We need management to keep the team on the straight and narrow and guide where necessary (if they have technical skills then great but it's not essential). 

We need business owners / Directors/ Execs to manage the business in a responsible way, remain profitable, legal and have a clear direction on where the company is headed. 



We all like to think we are the most important cog in the machine or link in the chain. In truth we are nothing without the other roles playing their part. 

Treat cleaners and Chief Execs the same. Do not think you're are better or less than them. 

Albermarle

billy2shots said:

Albermarle said:

LV_426 said:

Workerdrone said:

The above comment made me chuckle. I have always worked in very technical industries. I've had plenty of opportunity over the years to watch people come in and rocket up the greasy pole. I'm not sure how it compares with other industries but the pattern is always the same. Person joins who is clearly ambitious but lacks the skill and more importantly the passion for the brass tacks job. They ingratiate and often schmooze their way into promotions after very little time often zigzagging to get to a high salary where no technical skills are required.Such people are brilliantly lampooned in the character of Gilbert's pointed haired boss.

The sort of people I work with are on average late 50's onwards, rocket scientist types. Ive seen many of them actively refuse to move into higher paid management positions because its not something they love doing. I similarly have no such pretensions. 

I am also that person. It sometimes makes me laugh that these people you talk about have no discernible technical skills, and are simply good at spouting BS. Which I suppose is a skill in itself, that I don't possess. I sometimes wonder why such people are not seen through, but then I realise they're talking to similar minded BS specialists.
Anyway, let them schmooze away and get those high salary BS jobs. I'm happy being a 'worker drone' and getting paid enough to suit my needs. My role interests me, for the most part. Besides, the more you earn, the more garbage you buy. It just scales up.

On the other hand people with technical skills that are promoted, often lack man management/political skills and this can cause stress for all concerned.

Was just about to write the same thing. 

Every business is the same as far as I'm concerned. 

We need the hard non technical workers to get the jobs done that others don't want to do. 

We need the technical members of the team to fulfill the specialist role they have been employed to do. 

We need management to keep the team on the straight and narrow and guide where necessary (if they have technical skills then great but it's not essential). 

We need business owners / Directors/ Execs to manage the business in a responsible way, remain profitable, legal and have a clear direction on where the company is headed. 



We all like to think we are the most important cog in the wheel or link in the chain. In truth we are nothing without the other roles playing their part. 

Treat cleaners and Chief Execs the same. Do not think your are better or less than them. 

Having come from the sales side of a business, I would also add that you need a good knowledge of your market/customers.
Know your 'routes to market' in the jargon.

.

LV_426

Albermarle said:

LV_426 said:

Workerdrone said:

The above comment made me chuckle. I have always worked in very technical industries. I've had plenty of opportunity over the years to watch people come in and rocket up the greasy pole. I'm not sure how it compares with other industries but the pattern is always the same. Person joins who is clearly ambitious but lacks the skill and more importantly the passion for the brass tacks job. They ingratiate and often schmooze their way into promotions after very little time often zigzagging to get to a high salary where no technical skills are required.Such people are brilliantly lampooned in the character of Gilbert's pointed haired boss.

The sort of people I work with are on average late 50's onwards, rocket scientist types. Ive seen many of them actively refuse to move into higher paid management positions because its not something they love doing. I similarly have no such pretensions. 

I am also that person. It sometimes makes me laugh that these people you talk about have no discernible technical skills, and are simply good at spouting BS. Which I suppose is a skill in itself, that I don't possess. I sometimes wonder why such people are not seen through, but then I realise they're talking to similar minded BS specialists.
Anyway, let them schmooze away and get those high salary BS jobs. I'm happy being a 'worker drone' and getting paid enough to suit my needs. My role interests me, for the most part. Besides, the more you earn, the more garbage you buy. It just scales up.

On the other hand people with technical skills that are promoted, often lack man management/political skills and this can cause stress for all concerned.

Absolutely. Again, another reason why I've not been bothered at all with promotion. I know what my motivations and skills are, and I've always been financially ok with a coal face technical job.
I've seen it countless times, where a technical expert is promoted into a management role, mainly because that's seen as a route to getting higher pay. 
What I would like to see is more equality and recognition of skills, in whatever role. Technical excellence should be rewarded as much as managerial skill. 

B0bbyEwing

Simon11 said:

You state it is out of your control, however surely you have the ability to boost your income? I don't know where you live, your skills and experience, however for most people they should have the ability to increase their income.

I know too many friends who have taken it easy work wise, with a similar income and not bothered to challenge themselves early on in their career. After 10 years of hard work and career moves, I am on at least three times their salary, with fantastic benefits and actually work less hours!

This would make a huge difference to the quality of life you would have now and in the future- without doing it, you would unfortunately really struggle to retire early.

Well I'm afraid you wont get any crossword cryptics from me. I tend to just talk in plain English I'm afraid. 

Sorry to highlight your post. I could take your name out because I'm actually responding to that kind of viewpoint, not specifically you. It just so happens that you made it on this thread but I've seen it before.

Of course, I've not conducted any scientific survey of 1000s of people but my general feeling is this viewpoint is often common among those who've done well for themselves as they look towards (I'll say towards rather than down on) those who don't earn quite so well.

I take a little bit of an issue with the viewpoint - reason being, everyone is different. We don't know someone else's situation, we don't know them as a person.
It's very easy if we don't have the concerns (not necessarily job concerns but any kind of concern) that someone else has, for us to just say - what you worrying for, just do <this> and your problem is resolved. "Just do it". Hmm, could maybe make some money out of that slogan.

I can only speak for myself on this one. I've been with the same company a long time. It doesn't pay great but there are worse paid jobs. The guys I work with are a good bunch and make the job but the boss, well let's just say you wouldn't believe me even if I started to tell you some of what the boss does & says towards me. My 2 biggest gripes about the place are 1) the impact on your free time at zero notice and 2) the way the boss treats me.
So "just leave". Yes, so easy.
To which they say "yes, it is so easy" - yes, to someone who finds it easy to "just leave". 
My problem is, I don't manage change very well, I don' manage (new) people very well to the point it's quite paralysing the feeling of anxiety, so to me it is not "easy", it's actually extremely difficult. 

Then you get people who'll say, yeah I understand it's not easy-easy, but it's not that bad. Well no, you don't get it at all, because it's not that bad in your head but it is that bad in mine.

It's like a relative of mine who was with an abusive partner. Physically and mentally and in public too. As the relative was male, they felt they couldn't really do or say anything about it. Who'll believe them? Once they started to open up, we'd say just get out of it - but it was easy for us to say yet extremely difficult for them to do. What can be easy or even difficult for one can be damn near impossible for another.

That's just one portion of it though. Add to that that I personally have never known what I wanted to do. They say that's half the battle. It's not. It's much more than half because then you know at least what direction you're going in.

I just feel that some people who say they understand, don't actually understand, they just think their rough idea is near accurate when it can be a million miles off.

LV_426

B0bbyEwing said:

Simon11 said:

You state it is out of your control, however surely you have the ability to boost your income? I don't know where you live, your skills and experience, however for most people they should have the ability to increase their income.

I know too many friends who have taken it easy work wise, with a similar income and not bothered to challenge themselves early on in their career. After 10 years of hard work and career moves, I am on at least three times their salary, with fantastic benefits and actually work less hours!

This would make a huge difference to the quality of life you would have now and in the future- without doing it, you would unfortunately really struggle to retire early.

Well I'm afraid you wont get any crossword cryptics from me. I tend to just talk in plain English I'm afraid. 

Sorry to highlight your post. I could take your name out because I'm actually responding to that kind of viewpoint, not specifically you. It just so happens that you made it on this thread but I've seen it before.

Of course, I've not conducted any scientific survey of 1000s of people but my general feeling is this viewpoint is often common among those who've done well for themselves as they look towards (I'll say towards rather than down on) those who don't earn quite so well.

I take a little bit of an issue with the viewpoint - reason being, everyone is different. We don't know someone else's situation, we don't know them as a person.
It's very easy if we don't have the concerns (not necessarily job concerns but any kind of concern) that someone else has, for us to just say - what you worrying for, just do <this> and your problem is resolved. "Just do it". Hmm, could maybe make some money out of that slogan.

I can only speak for myself on this one. I've been with the same company a long time. It doesn't pay great but there are worse paid jobs. The guys I work with are a good bunch and make the job but the boss, well let's just say you wouldn't believe me even if I started to tell you some of what the boss does & says towards me. My 2 biggest gripes about the place are 1) the impact on your free time at zero notice and 2) the way the boss treats me.
So "just leave". Yes, so easy.
To which they say "yes, it is so easy" - yes, to someone who finds it easy to "just leave". 
My problem is, I don't manage change very well, I don' manage (new) people very well to the point it's quite paralysing the feeling of anxiety, so to me it is not "easy", it's actually extremely difficult. 

Then you get people who'll say, yeah I understand it's not easy-easy, but it's not that bad. Well no, you don't get it at all, because it's not that bad in your head but it is that bad in mine.

It's like a relative of mine who was with an abusive partner. Physically and mentally and in public too. As the relative was male, they felt they couldn't really do or say anything about it. Who'll believe them? Once they started to open up, we'd say just get out of it - but it was easy for us to say yet extremely difficult for them to do. What can be easy or even difficult for one can be damn near impossible for another.

That's just one portion of it though. Add to that that I personally have never known what I wanted to do. They say that's half the battle. It's not. It's much more than half because then you know at least what direction you're going in.

I just feel that some people who say they understand, don't actually understand, they just think their rough idea is near accurate when it can be a million miles off.

What industry are you in? In mine (IT), the best way to increase pay is to change jobs. I also find that extremely difficult, and stressful. That's partly because I'm on the autistic spectrum, although never been properly diagnosed.
And a bad boss is a terrible thing to endure. I've often heard it said that people don't change jobs, they change bosses.
Changing jobs can actually be good for you in lots of ways - aside from the usual pay increases, it can let you acquire more skills. I'm too old to be doing it now, as I'm on the home run to retirement (55), but I think you are younger?

B0bbyEwing

billy2shots said:

Albermarle said:

LV_426 said:

Workerdrone said:

The above comment made me chuckle. I have always worked in very technical industries. I've had plenty of opportunity over the years to watch people come in and rocket up the greasy pole. I'm not sure how it compares with other industries but the pattern is always the same. Person joins who is clearly ambitious but lacks the skill and more importantly the passion for the brass tacks job. They ingratiate and often schmooze their way into promotions after very little time often zigzagging to get to a high salary where no technical skills are required.Such people are brilliantly lampooned in the character of Gilbert's pointed haired boss.

The sort of people I work with are on average late 50's onwards, rocket scientist types. Ive seen many of them actively refuse to move into higher paid management positions because its not something they love doing. I similarly have no such pretensions. 

I am also that person. It sometimes makes me laugh that these people you talk about have no discernible technical skills, and are simply good at spouting BS. Which I suppose is a skill in itself, that I don't possess. I sometimes wonder why such people are not seen through, but then I realise they're talking to similar minded BS specialists.
Anyway, let them schmooze away and get those high salary BS jobs. I'm happy being a 'worker drone' and getting paid enough to suit my needs. My role interests me, for the most part. Besides, the more you earn, the more garbage you buy. It just scales up.

On the other hand people with technical skills that are promoted, often lack man management/political skills and this can cause stress for all concerned.

Was just about to write the same thing. 

Every business is the same as far as I'm concerned. 

We need the hard non technical workers to get the jobs done that others don't want to do. 

We need the technical members of the team to fulfill the specialist role they have been employed to do. 

We need management to keep the team on the straight and narrow and guide where necessary (if they have technical skills then great but it's not essential). 

We need business owners / Directors/ Execs to manage the business in a responsible way, remain profitable, legal and have a clear direction on where the company is headed. 



We all like to think we are the most important cog in the wheel or link in the chain. In truth we are nothing without the other roles playing their part. 

Treat cleaners and Chief Execs the same. Do not think your are better or less than them. 

If only more people had your outlook. 

I certainly wish my place of work did. Every person in every department thinks they're The One. 

There's such a toxic culture. There's an office I need to walk in to & every time I'm there it's just negative-negative-negative. The only variation in the day is which employee they're moaning about. 
Then the best part is, there'll moan about Joe Bloggs but then I'll see Joe Bloggs come in to the office & they'll be like "you alright mate? How you doing?". 

I know most people stay quiet but I pull them on it & make them feel awkward. Why you trying to be their best mate? You were just running them in to the ground. 
"No we weren't". 

Every day. lol.

They never do it with me there, I get all the "you alright mate" treatment, but I get told all about what is said about me from others who go in the office. I'm under no illusion that I'm the only one in the company who doesn't have crap said about them.

Problem is, it's infectious & inevitably it ends up getting in to you too at times. It has most certainly impacted on how I view other people and not in a positive manner either.