Pensionbee decimates my pension pot.

Rtayl306

Yeah and stuff the poor as long as there lining there pockets through thick people like me who just want to be able to retire. I expect falls in my pension, but not to the extent I have had, but hey you all just think I'm stupid for being on here. 

QrizB

Rtayl306 said:

QrizB said:

Rtayl306 said:

grumiofoundation said:

The responsibility for the investment choices with pensionbee lies with you - what investments did you choose?

I chose the 4plus plan after moving from the tailored plan.

OK, here's the factsheet:

https://www.ssga.com/library-content/products/factsheets/mf/emea/factsheet-emea-en_gb-gb00bg217453.pdf

From the start of August last year to the end of July this year, it lost 1.38%.

Looking at the factsheet, the recommended minimum investment period is five years (and over five years it is just short of its objective, with a return of just under 4% vs. its benchmark index).

When did you switch to this fund, recently or a few years ago?

Edit: from Morningstar it seems to have lost another 3% since the end of July, which is disappointing. That's still only 4.4%, not the 9% that you say you've lost.

I was with the tailored plan from Dec 21 till around April.

Thanks, so you switched to the 4plus plan in April? From the Morningstar data it looks as though the fund has dropped about 4.5% since then.

You've previously said you are planning to retire in two years, and the 4plus plan has a recommended minimum investment period of five years. Are you planning to leave this pension invested when you retire and draw it down steadily over the next 25+ years? If so, there's a reasonable chance it will recover your losses during that period.

Or do you have other plans for this money?

ussdave

Most people here have been patiently trying to explain to you your mistake.  You don't seem to want to/be able to listen to those that are trying to help.

grumiofoundation

Rtayl306 said:

grumiofoundation said:

Rtayl306 said:

bostonerimus said:

There are certainly many scams and abuses present in the financial services industry, but the experience of the OP with Pensionbee seems to be more down to expectations not lining up with realities. When people make 10% I never see complaints, but lose 10% and the heavens are falling…one goes along with the other. There should be regulation of the pension industry and safeguards put in place, but at some point personal responsibility must be taken for your actions. I’m very left wing and generally pro consumer rights, but that does not lessen by belief that the world runs on taking responsibility for your actions or indeed inaction. In this case the OP needs to take more responsibility and learn from the experience and know that many are in a very similar boat

So what do I pay them a commission for,  to sit on there hands & say not my problem, these people need to take some responsibility 

Have you read the comments explaining what the offering from Pensionbee actually is? (or looked at their webiste)

You seem to be expecting something they never claimed they offered. 

Pensionbee aren't making investment choices, the investments are managed by Legal and general, Blackrock etc (depending on the investment you chose). 

The responsibility for the investment choices with pensionbee lies with you - what investments did you choose?

I chose the 4plus plan after moving from the tailored plan.  I was told by pensionbee that they aim to get me 4 percent a year growth, instead they loose 14 grand. I'm just a ground worker on minimum wage, so you people who are slagging me off as thick, try helping people like me  I can't afford the prices that these financial consultants charge, so I trust what these pension companies tell me. You all sit there saying this that and the other.

You can choose to listen to what people are telling you to try and help you or you can continue to get angry at people explaining the situation as it is, not as you think it is. People are not calling you thick but trying to explain why your claims of being robbed are wrong. You can continue to blame pensionbee/accuse them of robbing you  and learn nothing or you can realise your misunderstanding of their role.

Rtayl306 said:

Yeah and stuff the poor as long as there lining there pockets through thick people like me who just want to be able to retire. I expect falls in my pension, but not to the extent I have had, but hey you all just think I'm stupid for being on here. 

You will probably been invested during times of greater volatility - march 2020, 2008, what were you invested in then, what did it fall by.

grumiofoundation

Rtayl306 said:

QrizB said:

Rtayl306 said:

grumiofoundation said:

The responsibility for the investment choices with pensionbee lies with you - what investments did you choose?

I chose the 4plus plan after moving from the tailored plan.

OK, here's the factsheet:

https://www.ssga.com/library-content/products/factsheets/mf/emea/factsheet-emea-en_gb-gb00bg217453.pdf

From the start of August last year to the end of July this year, it lost 1.38%.

Looking at the factsheet, the recommended minimum investment period is five years (and over five years it is just short of its objective, with a return of just under 4% vs. its benchmark index).

When did you switch to this fund, recently or a few years ago?

Edit: from Morningstar it seems to have lost another 3% since the end of July, which is disappointing. That's still only 4.4%, not the 9% that you say you've lost.

I was with the tailored plan from Dec 21 till around April.

What were you invested in before then? 

bostonerimus

Krakkkers said:

What is the point of letting professionals look after your money if they are not going to outperform the market?
If markets are falling them maybe managers of funds should sell or short, not just sit on their hands and say its nothing to do with them.

Money managers don't have crystal balls. You have pointed out the major slight of hand that financial professionals pull on their customers, they are not smarter than you and you can do just as well if you DIY and save yourself their fee. I do not pay an advisor or active fund managers. I don't believe I can do better then them, but I can do just as well. I'm down in this last year, but that's due to my asset allocation. Having a professional advise you, or manage your money or paying the fees of actively managed funds does not protect your money, it's still at risk. The UK's pension "reforms" and introduction of DC pensions and drawdown were sold as giving choice and pension portability, they didn't emphasize the increased risk people would be taking on. If you want insurance that your pension won't go up and down with the markets then buy an annuity. 

In the OP's case I think there is a basic misunderstanding of Pensionbee's role. They are just providing a series of funds, not advice, that they market at various risk levels. It is the OP's responsibility to understand the risks and how the money is invested. The fund fee is going to be taken out whether the fund value is up or down. Unfortunately the OP is experiencing a perfect storm of market declines and rising inflation at the worst time. Theye will be many other people in a similar situation. The fault is partly the Government's with it's pension reforms lobbied for by the financial industry, and even the most knowlegeable investors have been caught out by today's stiuation, so the only fault the OP has to own up to is not fully understanding the structure of their pension investments and the risks involved and that's something that they can now fix.

LV_426

ussdave said:

Most people here have been patiently trying to explain to you your mistake.  You don't seem to want to/be able to listen to those that are trying to help.

I've found that some people don't listen, and cannot be reasoned with. They come with their own pre-conceived views and no amount of patient explanation can change it.
The bottom line, which the OP can't seem to accept, is that these investments are for the long term. Panicking over short term losses is pointless.
And we're all seeing our investments stall, or lose, to a greater or lesser degree. Another point which has been lost on the OP.

dunstonh

LV_426 said:

dunstonh said:

LV_426 said:

Can I ask what happens to those in retirement, if the market dips like this? Do you just accept the hit and erosion of your fund value, or are people invested in more stable, but lower growth funds, post-retirement? 

There is no "if".   It is "when".    These dips and far worse dips are always coming.  You typically see at least one large drop every 5 years.  And it could be that you see 2-3 years of negative years in a row and then have 7 positives.

You know they are coming and because you know they are coming, you don't spend all the gains you get in positive years.  You average out the ups and downs.     Many people maintain a cash float in retirement to see them through negative years and replenish the cash float in positive years (and with dividends/distributions).

Makes sense, I was just interested in the strategies people use to manage income in retirement. I suppose market volatility is the price we pay for having more control and access to our funds. Plus we can pass wealth to our descendants. None of this was possible with previous pension arrangements and inflexible/poor value annuities.
In general I think we're in a much better position to manage our retirement incomes. But as we see from this thread, it requires a certain amount of knowledge and realisation to do it yourself.

When the law charged on drawdown, it also changed some of the rules on annuities.  Death benefits can be better than they used to be with annuities.    It is just low interest rates that has held them back. That is now changing and we are starting to see annuities heading towards being viable again.

LV_426

dunstonh said:

LV_426 said:

dunstonh said:

LV_426 said:

Can I ask what happens to those in retirement, if the market dips like this? Do you just accept the hit and erosion of your fund value, or are people invested in more stable, but lower growth funds, post-retirement? 

There is no "if".   It is "when".    These dips and far worse dips are always coming.  You typically see at least one large drop every 5 years.  And it could be that you see 2-3 years of negative years in a row and then have 7 positives.

You know they are coming and because you know they are coming, you don't spend all the gains you get in positive years.  You average out the ups and downs.     Many people maintain a cash float in retirement to see them through negative years and replenish the cash float in positive years (and with dividends/distributions).

Makes sense, I was just interested in the strategies people use to manage income in retirement. I suppose market volatility is the price we pay for having more control and access to our funds. Plus we can pass wealth to our descendants. None of this was possible with previous pension arrangements and inflexible/poor value annuities.
In general I think we're in a much better position to manage our retirement incomes. But as we see from this thread, it requires a certain amount of knowledge and realisation to do it yourself.

When the law charged on drawdown, it also changed some of the rules on annuities.  Death benefits can be better than they used to be with annuities.    It is just low interest rates that has held them back. That is now changing and we are starting to see annuities heading towards being viable again.

Interesting. I was under the impression that it cost a lot more to purchase an annuity with enhanced death benefits. But worth keeping an eye on I guess. 

Marcon

Krakkkers said:

What is the point of letting professionals look after your money if they are not going to outperform the market?
If markets are falling them maybe managers of funds should sell or short, not just sit on their hands and say its nothing to do with them.

The 'point' is one which I think you are OP are missing. It depends entirely on the funds in which an individual chooses (note the verb there...'chooses') to put their money. Different funds have different objectives - and 'outperforming the market' means 'taking above average risk', which many people don't want.