Fence advice - unusual conundrum

AmmDram

Hi, we would like to get a dog in the future, so need to make sure our garden is fully enclosed. This on the surface seems simple - get a fence - but in practice I’m not sure it’s so straightforward.

Our garden slopes upwards away from the back of the house, and we have a retaining stone wall between us and the neighbour to our left (if you’ve got your back to the back of our house). Our neighbour’s house is higher up than ours. That’s her garage in the pic. 

Before the garden starts sloping upwards, the retaining wall is high enough to contain a dog, but at the back of our garden, there is virtually no wall. There is also another, lower retaining red brick wall which provides a ‘step’ up to the second wall.

I had the idea of using planters and metal trellis to block the very top part (hard to see in the pic), where the wall is virtually non existent so the dog wouldn’t be able to get through behind next door’s garage, but due to the bit of raised up ground, behind the red brick retaining wall alongside the stone wall, a dog could climb up and easily get over into next door. 

I am aware this probably makes no sense so have attached a photo. 

The lowest ground level shown is where there used to be a garage. The rest of the garden (to the right of what is shown in the first pic - see second pic) is bordered by a matching red brick wall (which was the other side of where the garage was, but not part of the garage, (so I assume the red brick walls are retaining walls too) and the other side of the garden also slopes upwards, so a dog could gain easy access to the upper most part of the garden near the back fence (and escape via next door). 

I got a £900+ quote for a 5ft fence to be erected in the soil border between the stone wall and red brick wall but the guy said he would bolt it directly to the stone wall and I am concerned the wood would eventually rot as no air would be able to circulate. If we put it further in, we would be losing a bit of garden as the stone wall is the boundary. 

To complicate things further, large weeds grow from both sides of the stone wall and if I put a fence in, I won’t be able to get rid of the weeds. The lady next door can’t access it to weed from her side. 

I would definitely consider railings, but assume they would be way more expensive, and the slope of the land means we couldn’t just get pre fabricated panels and DIY. 

This is such an inconvenient garden (built on an old quarry so there are huge lumps of stone under the soil) and unfortunately landscaping isn’t an option at the moment. If the soil/rubble/stone area between the walls was just soil, it would be easier to fit something/level/step it out. 

Ignore the pile of rubble, it’s broken up concrete which had been poured over the soil… will be getting rid of it! 

If you’re still with me, thanks for reading my incoherent rambling. If anyone has any suggestions how to dog proof that area, I’d love to hear it, or if you think attaching the fence directly to the stone wall wouldn’t cause it to rot, I’d love to know. 

Bendy_House

Are you saying that ALL you'd have to do, in order to retain your beast, is to fill in this gap?:

Where does the border betwixt you and the garage neighbour lie? You should obviously take that into account.

And best have a chat with that neighbour - AFTER you have ascertained who owns what.

That red brick stepped wall isn't really a 'retaining' wall - it just ain't solid enough - but more a flowerbed/planter wall, which simply holds that line of soil. Are you going to plant stuff there? Seems an obvious thing to do.

Not sure the stone wall is 'retaining' either, as surely the garage wall is effectively doing that?

Anyhoo, happy new dawg. But, what is your actual issue here? And where does the actual boundary line run?

AmmDram

My actual issue is wanting to make it so a dog can’t escape. 

Next door’s garage is actually on a raised up ground level, it’s made of panels and doesn’t go below ground. There is a gap between that and the stone wall. It is a retaining wall, as what you can’t see here, her drive and house are about 5 ft higher than ours, that stone wall looks like it holds back the land under her house. 

What you also can’t see in this pic, is that to the left of the pic, front of her garage, it’s ground level at her side so a dog could climb up from the lowest course of red bricks, go up towards the lowest point of stone wall, walk along it and get out at the front of her garage. 

I will post more pics if it helps. 

AmmDram

This is taken from further away, you can see the ground level on her side at the front of her garage. That flimsy fence panel used to be attached to the side of a garage. That is the edge of the other photo. If the dog got on top of the stone wall, it would be at ground level next door (at the front of her garage) and could easily get out. 

AmmDram

I think the red brick wall is holding the soil, half of the garden back, or what else is retaining it? There is a public footpath higher up than our garden out the back, behind the back fence. 

I wouldn’t want to assume the red bricks aren’t retaining and have the public footpath collapse into our garden. 

AmmDram

Bendy_House said:

Are you saying that ALL you'd have to do, in order to retain your beast, is to fill in this gap?:

Where does the border betwixt you and the garage neighbour lie? 

Thanks but no, I have already filled that gap from our side with three large round planters and three pieces of metal trellis, you can’t see them in the pic but they are there next to the large plant. 

The border is the retaining stone wall. Has to be as on our side at the lowest ground level there is approx 5ft drop from top of the stone wall to the ground and on her side, it’s literally just the stones on the top of the wall, then that’s her ground level. 

Alderbank

What variety of dog are you planning to get?

I have had dogs of all sizes over the years and I don't think that most dogs would walk along that length of stone wall (cats would of course!)
However, a piece of prickle strip on the wall will stop any dog from exploring. Sometimes called Dig Stopper there are lots of variants https://www.amazon.co.uk/Defenders-Prickle-Stopper-Weather-Resistant-Wildlife/dp/B008ID91XI
It is a plastic grid with plastic spikes. It doesn't harm dogs but they do not like the feel of it on their paws and will not cross it.

Brie

Get a dachshund!

AmmDram

Thanks, I didn’t know about this product. It would be a greyhound. Would like to be able to let it out without worrying it might spot a squirrel and just go for it. They can have a very strong prey drive. 

 Am mainly worried about it getting up to the soil level (between the walls) and then out at the front (or back) of neighbours garage. 

I had considered draping some netting from the stone wall, down to the ground level so it wouldn’t be able to put its feet down on the soil level between the walls. 

Wouldn’t mind going for the 5ft fence but am just concerned about it being butted right up against the stone wall in case the fence rots due to lack of air flow. 

Thanks for replying. 

Bendy_House

The red brick wall is 'retaining', but only a lump of soil - it isn't holding your neighb's garage back, or anything like that (at least i hope not...)

Your red wall at the back is certainly holding back more, so I hope it's more substantial than it looks from that side! Good chance there's a block wall skinned behind it.

Anyhoo, that's all by the by.

I suspect the solution might be to add a gated fence to section off your garden from the front drive, like this:

And to continue the height of that fence along the front of the stone wall. If the neighb is happy, then this would only need to go as far as the front corner of their garage, and then it does a short 'return' across the stone wall to almost touch their garage. This is all be doable.

Who 'owns' that actual stone wall? On whose property does it lie - yours, theirs, or straddling? Where is the boundary line in relation to it?

If it turns out to be fully on your land, then you won't even need the neighb's permission to fit a return panel across it to almost touch their garage.

Most retaining walls - that stone wall is - do tend to 'belong' to the land on the higher ground. Or, at least it tends to be their responsibility. But check your deeds to make sure.

AmmDram

Bendy_House 

Your red wall at the back is certainly holding back more, so I hope it's more substantial than it looks from that side! Good chance there's a block wall skinned behind it.

Anyhoo, that's all by the by.

I suspect the solution might be to add a gated fence to section off your garden from the front drive, like this:

And to continue the height of that fence along the front of the stone wall. If the neighb is happy, then this would only need to go as far as the front corner of their garage, and then it does a short 'return' across the stone wall to almost touch their garage. 

Thanks for the suggestion and taking the time to reply, but if we fenced that part off, I don’t think it would achieve the aim. There is no back door to our house, so the dog would only have access to the tarmac strip at the side of our house (pictured where the bins are). 

The conservatory built on the back is so close to where the garage was, there is hardly enough room to get into the green/proper patio part of the garden. That’s part of the  reason we got rid of the garage. Putting a fence back in across where the old garage was wouldn’t necessarily allow us the use the ‘back garden’ with a dog? 

If the rest of the garden was still accessible with your suggestion in place, how would it stop it getting up the grass side and out along the top end of the garden? Apologies if I am misunderstanding. 

The deeds don’t specify who owns the wall. When I discussed it with the neighbour, she said we jointly own it, it isn’t ‘hers’. 

She is lovely and very amenable to whatever we need to do to make the garden dog friendly. 

Considering it retains her land though, based on what I have read previously, I would have thought it was her responsibility, but the previous owners of our house have patched up our side numerous times (though they said they were never asked to contribute to repair or upkeep costs on the forms when we bought  the house). 

Thanks.