County council and covenants

mscroft

Long story short - 2 years ago I purchased a property, where a small strip of land running along the rear boundary line carried a covenant, stating we couldn’t build or plant. The piece of land is shown on all legal docs as part of our property. Shortly after moving in we contacted the council regarding this land and asked what we could/couldn’t do. Their response, in a nutshell “its yours, do what you want” and they moved a lamp post on said land, at public expense. We moved the fence, as the old one was rotten and removed all the dead trees at our expense. Neighbours told us the property hadn’t been maintained in decades. The area is now clean, maintained and landscaped.

Fast forward 2 years, there’s been “parking wars” with 2 of the nearby properties, who want to use the strip for their multiple vehicles and work vans. We have been reported to the council and last week someone turned up at my house claiming to be from the council (no badge, didn’t introduce himself) stating “im from the council, that’s our land and we want it back….all your landscaping has to go”. He didn’t say we’d breached a covenant…but had “stolen” their land. Was all very bizarre. We explained our contact with the council 2 years ago and have since sent all our emails…luckily we kept them. Not only did they agree to move the lamp post but were very encouraging about our plans. We’ve also sent our legal docs which clearly show the land as part of out title and deeds.

As a back up, we have looked at surrounding properties who also have this “service strip” (15 are identifiable on our plans) and ALL of them have landscaped/fenced over or round them. What we have done with the land is no different in any way. “street view” confirms this.

Does anyone have any knowledge of these things?

Thanks 😀

mscroft

Just to add, at best we’ve unknowingly and with the permission of the council, breached a covenant. 

eddddy

In your position, I think I'd just ignore the visit from the 'supposed' council employee. If it was a genuine council matter, I suspect they would be contacting you in writing.

If they come back, I'd say something like "Can you send me a letter explaining what it is you want me to do, so that I can pass it to my solicitor, to ask for their advice?"

And/or maybe contact whoever you dealt with at the council 2 years ago saying something like "Somebody saying they were a council employee visited me, saying that part of my garden was owned by the council. Do you have a record of this visit? Were they likely to be genuine council employee?" 

mscroft

Thanks for your response.

We got his name and have since confirmed he is a council employee, highways. Though we suspect from the nature of his visit, and lack of knowledge (didnt know we’d spoken to the council in the past/ didn’t know they’d moved the lamp post/ and was clearly misinformed that the land belonged to the council) was this a favour for someone he knows. Just didn’t seem an official visit at all.

We rang him yesterday and he confirmed he’d spoken to his boss and they will be investigating, hence we’ve sent our legal docs and emails of our correspondence 2 years ago. We mentioned the other residents “service strip” and ours being no different. He said they don’t want a riot so we don’t need legal advice at this time.

I was just wondering if anyone could guess on what might happen next,  and whether the council are likely to take it further knowing we had council approval???? It’s absolutely bonkers!

Doozergirl

mscroft said:

Long story short - 2 years ago I purchased a property, where a small strip of land running along the rear boundary line carried a covenant, stating we couldn’t build or plant. The piece of land is shown on all legal docs as part of our property. Shortly after moving in we contacted the council regarding this land and asked what we could/couldn’t do. Their response, in a nutshell “its yours, do what you want” and they moved a lamp post on said land, at public expense. We moved the fence, as the old one was rotten and removed all the dead trees at our expense. Neighbours told us the property hadn’t been maintained in decades. The area is now clean, maintained and landscaped.

Fast forward 2 years, there’s been “parking wars” with 2 of the nearby properties, who want to use the strip for their multiple vehicles and work vans. We have been reported to the council and last week someone turned up at my house claiming to be from the council (no badge, didn’t introduce himself) stating “im from the council, that’s our land and we want it back….all your landscaping has to go”. He didn’t say we’d breached a covenant…but had “stolen” their land. Was all very bizarre. We explained our contact with the council 2 years ago and have since sent all our emails…luckily we kept them. Not only did they agree to move the lamp post but were very encouraging about our plans. We’ve also sent our legal docs which clearly show the land as part of out title and deeds.

As a back up, we have looked at surrounding properties who also have this “service strip” (15 are identifiable on our plans) and ALL of them have landscaped/fenced over or round them. What we have done with the land is no different in any way. “street view” confirms this.

Does anyone have any knowledge of these things?

Thanks 😀

Doesn't sound like a council official. 

My husband had one turn up on a building site once.  Not a council official at all but some bloke that lived around the corner.  

There's some weirdos out there. 

I think if the council had issue, they'd be writing, but even someone like planning enforcement would turn up with a lanyard etc. 

TBagpuss

It does seem a bit odd - is yours in a position which would make it hard for people to access theirs with a car? I am wondering whether someone has worked out that not to build or plant doesn't prevent parking, and either have been told they can't, or find your fence etc is an issue with access, and has kicked up a fuss as a result.

I suspect that the fac they gave you premissin to use the land may well make it very difficult for the council to now try to enfoce it against you, but it's a pretty specifclaist area of law so I would wait to see what if anything you hear from the council and then get some legal advce if they auggst that you need to remove your landscaping. Did you move your fence to include this strip or is it outside your fence? 

mscroft

No….we are on the corner of a cul de sac. Our boundary runs parallel to the road. 2 residents of the cul de sac were using it to park, prior to us buying the house and renovating it. They were contravening the Highway Code as they were parking either on the junction or blocking our drive, which is at the back. Our fence runs parallel to this “service strip”, which is why we contacted the council in the first instance. As this piece of land is within our title deeds, they said we could do whatever we wanted, and assisted by moving a street lamp so we could move the fence. There is still a margin of land on the outside of the fence. We removed several dead conifers, the old rotten fence and removed all the rubbish within the bushes. It’s now planted with a Laurel hedge, and gravel which extends to the road. The land in question, is ALL within our title deeds and legal documentation.

newsgroupmonkey_

So basically, even if they made you put it back, people can't park on it. It's still yours (although this would be a civil not criminal issue)

Section62

mscroft said:

We got his name and have since confirmed he is a council employee, highways. Though we suspect from the nature of his visit, and lack of knowledge (didnt know we’d spoken to the council in the past/ didn’t know they’d moved the lamp post/ and was clearly misinformed that the land belonged to the council) was this a favour for someone he knows. Just didn’t seem an official visit at all.

We rang him yesterday and he confirmed he’d spoken to his boss and they will be investigating, hence we’ve sent our legal docs and emails of our correspondence 2 years ago. We mentioned the other residents “service strip” and ours being no different. He said they don’t want a riot so we don’t need legal advice at this time.

I was just wondering if anyone could guess on what might happen next,  and whether the council are likely to take it further knowing we had council approval???? It’s absolutely bonkers!

Nothing surprising to me.  I would guess his visit was triggered by someone complaining about you 'encroaching' on the highway.  The initialsite visit would be by someone like a highways inspector who (possibly just when in the area or passing through) would take a look to see if the report matched what was actually on the ground.  Typically they wouldn't investigate the background history of the site before visiting.

He should have had some form of ID (not necessarily a visible 'badge') and been willing to show it to you if asked.  Did you ask to see any ID?

Something in writing would normally follow on after an initial site visit - once they have confirmed the situation is as reported, and checked the limits of highway/service strip, I would have expected a letter telling you what action was needed (possibly with a threat of enforcement action if you didn't comply).

I suspect the person who told you "its yours, do what you want" didn't know what they were talking about and acted on their own initiative.  (this is why in similar situations I urge people not only to get things in writing, but to ensure the person dealing with it has the authority to say what they are saying)

If, legally, the land is highway or service strip then I believe the person you dealt with previously cannot/has not change that.  Legally it will still be highway or service strip.

But see what the Council's next move is.  They may decide not to rock the boat (until a utility company needs to do work in the service strip), or they could confirm that you need to restore the land to its previous state.

I also suspect that ultimately the only comeback you may have is to get some form of compensation for being given the wrong advice about being able to do what you want with the land, and the cost of materials/plants you put in.

mscroft

newsgroupmonkey_ said:

So basically, even if they made you put it back, people can't park on it. It's still yours (although this would be a civil not criminal issue)

Even their own council website says they do not investigate breaches of covenants, and that is at best the worst thing we’ve done…..Yet with their approval. Absolute nuts! And the council used public money to move something, that they now claim is on their land. It’s not, the deeds clearly show it as ours.

user1977

mscroft said:

newsgroupmonkey_ said:

So basically, even if they made you put it back, people can't park on it. It's still yours (although this would be a civil not criminal issue)

Even their own council website says they do not investigate breaches of covenants

Surely they mean breaches of covenants between landowners which don't include the council? They'll obviously have an interest in enforcing covenants where the council is the beneficiary.