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£2500 Price Cap Martin's view
Comments
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TheBanker said:
I will benefit from any price freeze and from the £400 payment, but my 'benefit' will be a higher savings account balance than if I didn't receive the government help.
The government help is a government backed loan to the energy companies that must be repaid. Reports on how that will happen are still conflicting but it's expected to be either through higher taxation or added to energy bills for the next 10-20 years.
So yeah, the govt might give you £2,000 in help this year but you (as a middle earner) will almost certainly end up repaying that money back over time with interest.
Giving people a loan isn't really helping them*.
*if repaid by taxation lower earners will benefit as they don't pay high taxes (theirs would be repaid by the rich) but as a middle earner you'll probably see no real financial advantage over the next 10 years as it's repaid1 -
sienew said:Robgmun said:"The big benefit, and problem, of this is (almost) everyone gets it."
Mr Lewis has been heroic and I think he's great, but It's phrases like this that get my goat, why shouldn't I benefit? I worked my behind off my whole life and Middle-income workers like me have been shafted lately and watching on the sidelines as those who are considered poor and on benefits get handout after handout after handout.
Without the price cap freeze my bills would have gone up from £97 a year ago to over £550 by next April, that's crippling to us and 10,000's of families across the country. Unless of course, the plan is to destroy the middle and make everyone poor and on benefits.
Helping the poorest 20% who will by far struggle most doesn't cost 20% of the cost of this package, it costs more like 10% as they tend to be much lower users, smaller houses, less appliances, already cut back a lot just due to being poor. This means the amount repaid would be MUCH MUCH lower and would be almost unnoticeable on most bills.
The argument can be made for middle earners this isn't really help but a buy now pay later scheme.
Generally how taxation works is that the very rich pay for the very poor. Middle earners pay for themselves. This means if this is added to either taxation or your bill you will end up paying this money back. That brings up the question... is this help at all? Or is it just essentially a buy now pay later scheme for middle earners? And like many middle earners here have argued, they would rather pay an extra £2,000 a year on their bill this year (with reduced usage this might be cut down to say £1500) than pay an extra £210 a year for the next 10 years. And what happens in 18 months if prices haven't gone down?0 -
sienew said:busybee100 said:Anyone worried about the future cost and "paying it back" should consider the future without the cap. Those people you think shouldn't get help will have less money to spend. Businesses will go under very quickly with the double whammy of higher energy prices and no disposable income.
The question is... are we just delaying the inevitable at an incredible cost that probably FAR exceeds £100 BILLION. It's highly likely that we find ourselves at or above the October cap in 18 months anyway, that still would require an almost 50% drop in prices in the 12 months following April 2023.sienew said:busybee100 said:And we need to invest in green energy and nuclear. We need to be self sufficient.
As an example you could build 4 Hinkley Point C's for £100B, each expected to supply 7% of the UK's energy needs. The expected lifetime is at least 60 years. And this isn't even our cheapest form of energy production. Our country could become energy self sufficient for generations for the cost of an 18 month support package.
*100B is the base package predictions in the media, the full package to consumers seems to be closer to £150B and could reasonably end up being £200B. Then they are talking about support for businesses which depending on what they do possibly even take the cost to £300B.0 -
Robgmun said:"The big benefit, and problem, of this is (almost) everyone gets it."
Mr Lewis has been heroic and I think he's great, but It's phrases like this that get my goat, why shouldn't I benefit? I worked my behind off my whole life and Middle-income workers like me have been shafted lately and watching on the sidelines as those who are considered poor and on benefits get handout after handout after handout.
Without the price cap freeze my bills would have gone up from £97 a year ago to over £550 by next April, that's crippling to us and 10,000's of families across the country. Unless of course, the plan is to destroy the middle and make everyone poor and on benefits.
There but for the grace of God go I.2 -
sienew said:busybee100 said:Anyone worried about the future cost and "paying it back" should consider the future without the cap. Those people you think shouldn't get help will have less money to spend. Businesses will go under very quickly with the double whammy of higher energy prices and no disposable income.
The question is... are we just delaying the inevitable at an incredible cost that probably FAR exceeds £100 BILLION. It's highly likely that we find ourselves at or above the October cap in 18 months anyway, that still would require an almost 50% drop in prices in the 12 months following April 2023.busybee100 said:
And we need to invest in green energy and nuclear. We need to be self sufficient.
As an example you could build 4 Hinkley Point C's for £100B, each expected to supply 7% of the UK's energy needs. The expected lifetime is at least 60 years. And this isn't even our cheapest form of energy production. Our country could become energy self sufficient for generations for the cost of an 18 month support package.
*100B is the base package predictions in the media, the full package to consumers seems to be closer to £150B and could reasonably end up being £200B. Then they are talking about support for businesses which depending on what they do possibly even take the cost to £300B.
The crisis has not been caused by consumers but by mismanagement from successive governments who knew we would have a shortfall as the old powerstations went offline. (Plus Ofgem weren't regulating the Cowboys)
It isn't either or, there needs to be both subsidies and investment.
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busybee100 said:sienew said:busybee100 said:Anyone worried about the future cost and "paying it back" should consider the future without the cap. Those people you think shouldn't get help will have less money to spend. Businesses will go under very quickly with the double whammy of higher energy prices and no disposable income.
The question is... are we just delaying the inevitable at an incredible cost that probably FAR exceeds £100 BILLION. It's highly likely that we find ourselves at or above the October cap in 18 months anyway, that still would require an almost 50% drop in prices in the 12 months following April 2023.busybee100 said:
And we need to invest in green energy and nuclear. We need to be self sufficient.
As an example you could build 4 Hinkley Point C's for £100B, each expected to supply 7% of the UK's energy needs. The expected lifetime is at least 60 years. And this isn't even our cheapest form of energy production. Our country could become energy self sufficient for generations for the cost of an 18 month support package.
*100B is the base package predictions in the media, the full package to consumers seems to be closer to £150B and could reasonably end up being £200B. Then they are talking about support for businesses which depending on what they do possibly even take the cost to £300B.
The crisis has not been caused by consumers but by mismanagement from successive governments who knew we would have a shortfall as the old powerstations went offline. (Plus Ofgem weren't regulating the Cowboys)
It isn't either or, there needs to be both subsidies and investment.
I'm also not saying we shouldn't do anything. I do believe targeted support is a far better idea though.1 -
Astria said:Mstty said:Also will the freeze price per kWh only apply to the first £2500 worth of energy then it goes up to the price cap rate?
It would be a means of educating people to watch their usage and learn how energy billing works, we really should be having a tiered cap, a all you can eat cap is so wasteful.
On that note I think in future Ofgem should make it mandatory that for all fixed DD customers, the supplier has to send them a monthly report on their usage and explain if its below or above the estimation that sets their DD level.0 -
Hes busy backpedaling his advice IMO0
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MattMattMattUK said:sienew said:busybee100 said:Anyone worried about the future cost and "paying it back" should consider the future without the cap. Those people you think shouldn't get help will have less money to spend. Businesses will go under very quickly with the double whammy of higher energy prices and no disposable income.
The question is... are we just delaying the inevitable at an incredible cost that probably FAR exceeds £100 BILLION. It's highly likely that we find ourselves at or above the October cap in 18 months anyway, that still would require an almost 50% drop in prices in the 12 months following April 2023.sienew said:busybee100 said:And we need to invest in green energy and nuclear. We need to be self sufficient.
As an example you could build 4 Hinkley Point C's for £100B, each expected to supply 7% of the UK's energy needs. The expected lifetime is at least 60 years. And this isn't even our cheapest form of energy production. Our country could become energy self sufficient for generations for the cost of an 18 month support package.
*100B is the base package predictions in the media, the full package to consumers seems to be closer to £150B and could reasonably end up being £200B. Then they are talking about support for businesses which depending on what they do possibly even take the cost to £300B.I think....0 -
facade said:Ultrasonic said:Clavas said:I think the best option is to waive any early exit fees for anyone signing up to a fix since 1st July.
Fixes went up dramatically when the pundits finally realised prices would rocket up in October, I'm not sure if this happened in July though, the fixes were still below the rates of this £2500 cap in March, I took one.0
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