Air Source Heat Pumps Vs. Storage Heaters (Eco7)

JakeHyde

Hi guys,

My parents secured a grant for heating installation.
The guys who are installing it initially were going to install storage heating, and an eco 7 meter, but for some reason Scottish Power are struggling to get back to us with an installation date for the meter, a month later the heating guys suggested installing 'Air Source Heat Pump' heating. 

When I've mentioned this to friends, they all say "Owww, I wouldn't install an air pump, coz it's more expensive".  I've been to ask a few estate agents, enquiring about "if we had 'X' or 'Y' heating, would it hinder the sale of the house?". But the agents I spoke with didn't have a clue because its relatively new technology.

It's and old 5 bedroom house, they've already attached insulation boards to the interior of the outward facing walls.

I'd love to hear from your experiences.  Is 'Air Source' heating that much more expensive to run than Eco7? 
They're considering to sell the property in the near future, so how would each heating solution impact the sale?

Thank you in advance.

ProDave

ASHP should be CHEAPER than E7.

Storage heaters use resistance heating, so 1kW of electricity consumed puts 1kW of heat into your house.  All that storage heating brings to the party is a cheaper night time rate to charge the heaters but at the expense of a higher day rate for everything else.  The difference between day and night rate is not as much as it used to be so the benefit is arguably less than it used to be.

ASHP's on the other hand extract heat from the air.  So typically every 1kW of electricity it consumes it puts about 3kW of heat into the house.  That is not some form of magic trick, that extra energy has come from cooling down the air flow through the ASHP.

So the night E7 rate would have to be 1/3 of the day rate for storage heaters to make sense now compared to an ASHP.

BUT and there is always a but, there is a LOT of work to install an ASHP into a house that has nothing at the moment, ideally under floor heating but if not radiators will work.  That is a LOT more work that installing some storage heaters.  IF someone is going to stump up the money to properly install an ASHP by way of a grant, bite their hand off for it.

Doozergirl

ProDave said:

ASHP should be CHEAPER than E7.

Storage heaters use resistance heating, so 1kW of electricity consumed puts 1kW of heat into your house.  All that storage heating brings to the party is a cheaper night time rate to charge the heaters but at the expense of a higher day rate for everything else.  The difference between day and night rate is not as much as it used to be so the benefit is arguably less than it used to be.

ASHP's on the other hand extract heat from the air.  So typically every 1kW of electricity it consumes it puts about 3kW of heat into the house.  That is not some form of magic trick, that extra energy has come from cooling down the air flow through the ASHP.

So the night E7 rate would have to be 1/3 of the day rate for storage heaters to make sense now compared to an ASHP.

BUT and there is always a but, there is a LOT of work to install an ASHP into a house that has nothing at the moment, ideally under floor heating but if not radiators will work.  That is a LOT more work that installing some storage heaters.  IF someone is going to stump up the money to properly install an ASHP by way of a grant, bite their hand off for it.

I agree with all of this.  

JakeHyde

ProDave said:

ASHP should be CHEAPER than E7.

Storage heaters use resistance heating, so 1kW of electricity consumed puts 1kW of heat into your house.  All that storage heating brings to the party is a cheaper night time rate to charge the heaters but at the expense of a higher day rate for everything else.  The difference between day and night rate is not as much as it used to be so the benefit is arguably less than it used to be.

ASHP's on the other hand extract heat from the air.  So typically every 1kW of electricity it consumes it puts about 3kW of heat into the house.  That is not some form of magic trick, that extra energy has come from cooling down the air flow through the ASHP.

So the night E7 rate would have to be 1/3 of the day rate for storage heaters to make sense now compared to an ASHP.

BUT and there is always a but, there is a LOT of work to install an ASHP into a house that has nothing at the moment, ideally under floor heating but if not radiators will work.  That is a LOT more work that installing some storage heaters.  IF someone is going to stump up the money to properly install an ASHP by way of a grant, bite their hand off for it.

Thank you for the insight Dave 🙏

deannagone

I realise you said exterior insulation boards had been installed, but I suspect to make a heat pump workable, the house might need a lot more than that as heat pumps are wonderful.., but they don't produce anything like the temperatures traditional heating methods do.  I'd get the house thoroughly looked at before making a decision.  

Remember the people who are going to be doing the work just want the work, they don't care if it leaves your parents with a cold house.

Woolsery

ProDave said:

ASHP should be CHEAPER than E7.
BUT and there is always a but, there is a LOT of work to install an ASHP into a house that has nothing at the moment, ideally under floor heating but if not radiators will work.

And those radiators, running at a lower temperature than typical with a boiler, will need to be considerably larger to deliver the same heat.

aliby21

It might be worth looking on the utilities board for thoughts on air source heat pumps.  As far as I can gather it works very differently, designed to provide constant low level heat, and while it might work well when built into a house from the start isn't as well suited to retrofitting to an existing property, especially an older one.

what heating if any do they have at the moment? how is their water heated?  Are they doing this mostly to keep themselves warm this winter, or are they thinking they need to do something to provide heating before they sell?  Personally, as someone actively looking at houses at the moment, if I see any sort of electric heating I sigh.  If it is something done with a grant I am going to take another sigh - as another has said they are not going to be thinking primarily about the best way of providing heat for the house, just ticking the boxes getting the job done.  But, I am not an early adopter of technology! Others might be thrilled to have ASHP heating installed. I suspect in that way it is rather like electric cars.  

JakeHyde

aliby21 said:

It might be worth looking on the utilities board for thoughts on air source heat pumps.  As far as I can gather it works very differently, designed to provide constant low level heat, and while it might work well when built into a house from the start isn't as well suited to retrofitting to an existing property, especially an older one.

Thanks, I wasn't aware of the utilities board. 
Yes, they are looking to sell the house - the idea of having ASHP heating they thought it might add value to the building.
The building currently has nothing, other than naff plug in electric heating. The water is an old fashioned electric emersion heater.

deannagone

If they are going to sell, its really not worth the huge cash investment this would cost.  Does the property have any access to gas? It might be better to put a gas central heating system in and decorate in a bland style - new gas boiler would be a selling point even in these days (would increase efficiency against ancient electric only heating). I have lived in two properties with new boilers/radiators, resulted in an increase in warmth/speed of heating and decrease in costs because it worked better than the old system.  Gas is still cheaper than electricity to use.  An air pump system would have a cost in electricity.

Or they could just sell at a lower price making it clear the change of heating need is taken into account.  Properties with development potential can be very popular, depending on demand for properties in the area.

Another option is something like this https://www.glowing-embers.co.uk/log-burners/boilers.  Not recommending this company lol (and it sounds like they can't supply due to high demand)., just to give a general idea.  Might be attractive idea to buyers and cheaper than putting in a heat pump - no electricity needed but would have to have ability to store logs.

I know it might seem a step backwards to the owners but it is an alternative to using electricity and gas to heat a home.

Woolsery

Personally I'd not change from the simple option of storage heaters if the house is to be sold. A property that's dated will need other changes besides installation of a full wet heating system and the best person to make the choices will be the new owner. Even with a grant, your folks might not see a positive return on investment.

If the property is urban rather than rural, don't go down the wood-burning route. The same political agenda that's against fossil fuels is after wood burners as well, and meanwhile the panic about the coming winter is pushing up prices. It's OK for us people in the country with private supplies and loads of storage space, but even with those advantages it's not suitable for everyone, especially those who look for convenience and no mess!

peterhjohnson

JakeHyde said:

Yes, they are looking to sell the house - the idea of having ASHP heating they thought it might add value to the building.

There are very few "home improvements" that instantly add value and cost less than that extra value. ASHP is definitely not one.
The trick with home improvements is buy the ones that you want and enjoy them for some years. An eventual profit is a possible bonus. It  is probably illusory -  most or all of the profit comes from the general rise in property prices.
Skilled developers may "flip" a property by buying cheap, cheaply doing improvements and selling on at a profit. That's not an option for most owner/occupiers