Do I need a licence?

wrf12345

Surprising that no-one provides a service that does not require a TV licence, internet plus non-live and non-Beeb TV in a package that makes it impossible to watch live TV or Beeb by accident - I know you can do this on sticks and computer with a little effort but having a constrained service that you can point to in the unlikely event that some heavies turn up at the door would appeal to non-techies who aren't sure of the law, etc and could be presented in an easy to use form. I am going to ditch the TV licence when it expires as I have got used to streaming TV via my spare computer and 4G data rates are falling rapidly - I need internet anyway so that is free as far as the TV goes. Really not willing to contribute to the mega salaries of staff at the Beeb...

Cornucopia

wrf12345 said:

Surprising that no-one provides a service that does not require a TV licence, internet plus non-live and non-Beeb TV in a package that makes it impossible to watch live TV or Beeb by accident...

I think there was a time, maybe 5 years ago, when that kind of service could have had a ready market but since the BBC introduced sign-in to iPlayer, it hasn't really been necessary.   (Yes, I know the Licence covers all TV broadcasts).

There are also a couple of other considerations a provider might be thinking about before investing in such a service:  a) that legally Licence-free households are something of a hidden minority that would possibly be difficult to market to, and b) that they would be so unsure about the detail of the rules that they would be wary of the possible damage from getting it wrong.

wrf12345 said:

... unlikely event that some heavies turn up at the door ...

There really aren't "heavies" involved in enforcing the TV Licence.   Yes, the process is irrational and of dubious legal compliance, but at least they are usually only 1 person (in England & Wales) and they are reasonably polite.   

I realise how British that sounds.

HillStreetBlues

I know you   need a licence to watch live TV,  but don't need one to watch catchup.
But do you need one if selecting "watch from start"  if the program has already started?

Cornucopia

HillStreetBlues said:

I know you   need a licence to watch live TV,  but don't need one to watch catchup.
But do you need one if selecting "watch from start"  if the program has already started?

If it means watching a reasonable time after live (say 10 minutes or more) AND you don't need to watch live to get to the "watch from start" option AND it isn't BBC TV on iPlayer, then no, I'd say a Licence wasn't required.

Probably still easier to watch as catch-up after the broadcast, though.

HillStreetBlues

Cornucopia said:

If it means watching a reasonable time after live (say 10 minutes or more) AND you don't need to watch live to get to the "watch from start" option AND it isn't BBC TV on iPlayer, then no, I'd say no Licence wasn't required.

Probably still easier to watch as catch-up after the broadcast, though.

Is that an opinion or something laid down in law? As I haven't been able to find anything on that issue.

I don't have a licence as only watch catchup. But with sport I like to watch it ASAP.
My opinion is that's it's not live as it's already been on,  so would count as catchup,  but it's just my opinion, (as does the  amount of time delay matter?)

Cornucopia

HillStreetBlues said:

Cornucopia said:

If it means watching a reasonable time after live (say 10 minutes or more) AND you don't need to watch live to get to the "watch from start" option AND it isn't BBC TV on iPlayer, then no, I'd say a Licence wasn't required.

Probably still easier to watch as catch-up after the broadcast, though.

Is that an opinion or something laid down in law? As I haven't been able to find anything on that issue.

I don't have a licence as only watch catchup. But with sport I like to watch it ASAP.
My opinion is that's it's not live as it's already been on,  so would count as catchup,  but it's just my opinion, (as does the  amount of time delay matter?)

The legislation talks about a "programme" being received at the same time or virtually the same time as broadcast.   So, it becomes a subjective question as to what "virtually the same time" means in practical terms.  Personally, I think 10 minutes is long enough to be able to differentiate between live streaming and video-on-demand, but it is just my opinion.

Also, I think that there is an alternative interpretation of the wording which is that the programme's live broadcast slot is its entire duration, and the stream doesn't stop being "virtually the same time" until after the broadcast has finished.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2004/692/regulation/9/made

HillStreetBlues

Thank you for your detailed reply.
My opinion agrees with yours,  that a 10 minute (or longer) delay couldn't be classed as "virtually the same time"

I wonder when the legislation will catch up with this issue, and make it clear what is allowed.

Cornucopia

I suspect that the whole thing will be scrapped before this and other grey areas are clarified.  

km1500

what does 'virtually the same time' mean?

does it mean 'nearly' ?

if so, what does 'nearly' mean in this context?

Cornucopia

km1500 said:

what does 'virtually the same time' mean?

does it mean 'nearly' ?

if so, what does 'nearly' mean in this context?

It's intended to address the variable delay (usually no more than a few seconds) between reception using different technologies.   

I appreciate that they wanted to somewhat future-proof the legislation, but there is already a mechanism for making minor changes without taking the whole thing back through Parliament.   That could have enabled them to list the services providing the primary source of broadcasts which would require a Licence to receive (Freeview, Satellite and Cable TV).  

From there, it's a simple matter to add on concurrent Internet streams of those same linear channels, and iPlayer, and the definition is then complete and much, much clearer.