Solar panels Not worth the money

Exiled_Tyke

Skintsaver said:

ABrass said:

Skintsaver said:

Personally I wouldn't spend 5k on them I had mine installed under a grant. Before I wouldn't have had them installed and now seeing the saving after 27days I still can't recommend having them. (I happy with mine only due to the grant)

Mines a 2.5kw system 4panels face west 2 face east. Over 27 days I've produced 185kw. Which looking back at the same period last year I've used 42 units less. A saving of £12.18(29p/kwh) for just under a month. When I get a smart meter the remaining 143kw can be sold back at 7.5p/kwh at £10.72. So a total of £23 saving for 1 month. Bear in mind this is probably the month I'll produce the most. Even at £23 every month it'll take 20 years to earn over £5k.

So do I think it's worth it definitely not! 

Add to the future maintenance of changing inverters ect.. Best thing is to buy the most energy efficient appliances turn off what your not using.

Though i wonder what Agile will save me, I need to do estimated calculations for that. 

Why would an August be the most productive month?

But yes, tiny systems at high prices will struggle to pay for themselves. That is a system that people should not pay for.

August Being a summer month, I'm new to solar so could be supprised by may being the best for example. But August being a summer holiday it's possibly the month I'd use most when at home too.

I must add though I have a flat roof which may beable to have up to 6 panels (definitely 4) which might prove to be cost effective to add to my current system. The inverter rated at 2.5kw but I'll probably only hit 1.5kw at any one time. So that's thoughts for the future... 

But with my current system financially it wouldn't make sense. And only those on FIT tarrifs are benifitting now the most due to already paid back the install cost and bigger electricity costs. 

Best months for me in order are May, June,  July, April and then August.  August tends to be a hotter month which limits production.   

I found it took me quite a while to change my usage habits to make the most of production.  e.g. knowing when high usage appliances take their most current and staggering their use so they are not all on at the same time.  My dishwasher and washing machine both have timers I can set which helps with this.  I also tend not to have them on when cooking. 

Agile export is currently paying some very high rates so worth looking into. These could make a very good return. 

Those people I know who are currently investing in PV see if more as a hedge: protecting themselves from the volatility of electricity prices rather than an investment for great returns. 

Exiled_Tyke

Skintsaver said:

Personally I wouldn't spend 5k on them I had mine installed under a grant. Before I wouldn't have had them installed and now seeing the saving after 27days I still can't recommend having them. (I happy with mine only due to the grant)

Mines a 2.5kw system 4panels face west 2 face east. Over 27 days I've produced 185kw. Which looking back at the same period last year I've used 42 units less. A saving of £12.18(29p/kwh) for just under a month. When I get a smart meter the remaining 143kw can be sold back at 7.5p/kwh at £10.72. So a total of £23 saving for 1 month. Bear in mind this is probably the month I'll produce the most. Even at £23 every month it'll take 20 years to earn over £5k.

So do I think it's worth it definitely not! 

Add to the future maintenance of changing inverters ect.. Best thing is to buy the most energy efficient appliances turn off what your not using.

Though i wonder what Agile will save me, I need to do estimated calculations for that. 

This does seem expensive.  I've recently seen a quote from a reputable company for 4.5kW for £5k.  

EricMears

ABrass said:Even worse they get to say 'I told you so' continuously on repeat for the next two years.

You might hear that from me for the next 14 years 
 

gefnew

SORRY! but maybe a lot of the early adopters. November 2011, 25 years of this tax exempt money.

Hexane

Skintsaver said:

Over 27 days I've produced 185kw. 

Continuously?!?  That's 120 megawatt hours!

Even if you sold that back to the grid under an SEG arrangement at 5 pence per kWh, that would get you £6000. Blimey!

Hexane

Skintsaver said:

ABrass said:

Skintsaver said:

Personally I wouldn't spend 5k on them I had mine installed under a grant. Before I wouldn't have had them installed and now seeing the saving after 27days I still can't recommend having them. (I happy with mine only due to the grant)

Mines a 2.5kw system 4panels face west 2 face east. Over 27 days I've produced 185kw. Which looking back at the same period last year I've used 42 units less. A saving of £12.18(29p/kwh) for just under a month. When I get a smart meter the remaining 143kw can be sold back at 7.5p/kwh at £10.72. So a total of £23 saving for 1 month. Bear in mind this is probably the month I'll produce the most. Even at £23 every month it'll take 20 years to earn over £5k.

So do I think it's worth it definitely not! 

Add to the future maintenance of changing inverters ect.. Best thing is to buy the most energy efficient appliances turn off what your not using.

Though i wonder what Agile will save me, I need to do estimated calculations for that. 

Why would an August be the most productive month?

But yes, tiny systems at high prices will struggle to pay for themselves. That is a system that people should not pay for.

I'm new to solar so could be supprised by may being the best for example. 

Yes, May is normally the best month for generation under typical circumstances.

. And only those on FIT tarrifs are benifitting now the most due to already paid back the install cost and bigger electricity costs. 

That doesn't really make a lot of sense - anyone who is having to pay huge costs for electricity (or gas) is benefitting now, by every kWh they can generate for free thereby saving paying for it. And even those without FiT can get 5.5p per kWh under SEG, perhaps more under some schemes from Octopus. That's comparable to the rates the FiT was offering towards the end.

A 2.5kWp system is absolutely tiny so it's no surprise it's not generating much. It's an absolutely atypical system so it's by no means a good measure of what is or isn't worthwhile.

Magnitio

Skintsaver said:

Personally I wouldn't spend 5k on them I had mine installed under a grant. Before I wouldn't have had them installed and now seeing the saving after 27days I still can't recommend having them. (I happy with mine only due to the grant)

Mines a 2.5kw system 4panels face west 2 face east. Over 27 days I've produced 185kw. Which looking back at the same period last year I've used 42 units less. A saving of £12.18(29p/kwh) for just under a month. When I get a smart meter the remaining 143kw can be sold back at 7.5p/kwh at £10.72. So a total of £23 saving for 1 month. Bear in mind this is probably the month I'll produce the most. Even at £23 every month it'll take 20 years to earn over £5k.

So do I think it's worth it definitely not! 

Add to the future maintenance of changing inverters ect.. Best thing is to buy the most energy efficient appliances turn off what your not using.

Though i wonder what Agile will save me, I need to do estimated calculations for that. 

A few comments and questions based on this:

- £5k is a lot for a 2.5kWp system. Is that how much it cost? Typically a system of 4kWp could be purchased for that price.

- 185kWh of output seems quite low for a 2.5kWp system in 27 in August, although if you add another 4 days at the same rate it is 212kWh.

- 42 units (kWh?) is very low usage for 27 days and the method for estimating this (comparing with the same period in a previous year) is not a reliable estimation method for usage. Are you a very low consumer of electricity?

- Agile rates over August averaged over 30p/kWh, so that equates to over £60 if you sold everything you generated for August. However, it may turn out to be an exceptional month.

QrizB

Magnitio said:

Skintsaver said:

Personally I wouldn't spend 5k on them I had mine installed under a grant. Before I wouldn't have had them installed and now seeing the saving after 27days I still can't recommend having them. (I happy with mine only due to the grant)

Mines a 2.5kw system 4panels face west 2 face east. Over 27 days I've produced 185kw. Which looking back at the same period last year I've used 42 units less. A saving of £12.18(29p/kwh) for just under a month. When I get a smart meter the remaining 143kw can be sold back at 7.5p/kwh at £10.72. So a total of £23 saving for 1 month. Bear in mind this is probably the month I'll produce the most. Even at £23 every month it'll take 20 years to earn over £5k.

So do I think it's worth it definitely not! 

Add to the future maintenance of changing inverters ect.. Best thing is to buy the most energy efficient appliances turn off what your not using.

Though i wonder what Agile will save me, I need to do estimated calculations for that. 

A few comments and questions based on this:

- £5k is a lot for a 2.5kWp system. Is that how much it cost? Typically a system of 4kWp could be purchased for that price.

- 185kWh of output seems quite low for a 2.5kWp system in 27 in August, although if you add another 4 days at the same rate it is 212kWh.

- 42 units (kWh?) is very low usage for 27 days and the method for estimating this (comparing with the same period in a previous year) is not a reliable estimation method for usage. Are you a very low consumer of electricity?

- Agile rates over August averaged over 30p/kWh, so that equates to over £60 if you sold everything you generated for August. However, it may turn out to be an exceptional month.

Skintsaver's system was installed for him by the council's chosen subcontractor. I'm not sure value-for-money was very high on their priority list.

His system is slightly odd; see this thread. @Skintsaver did you ever find out exactly what they'd installed?

Skintsaver

Magnitio said:

Skintsaver said:

Personally I wouldn't spend 5k on them I had mine installed under a grant. Before I wouldn't have had them installed and now seeing the saving after 27days I still can't recommend having them. (I happy with mine only due to the grant)

Mines a 2.5kw system 4panels face west 2 face east. Over 27 days I've produced 185kw. Which looking back at the same period last year I've used 42 units less. A saving of £12.18(29p/kwh) for just under a month. When I get a smart meter the remaining 143kw can be sold back at 7.5p/kwh at £10.72. So a total of £23 saving for 1 month. Bear in mind this is probably the month I'll produce the most. Even at £23 every month it'll take 20 years to earn over £5k.

So do I think it's worth it definitely not! 

Add to the future maintenance of changing inverters ect.. Best thing is to buy the most energy efficient appliances turn off what your not using.

Though i wonder what Agile will save me, I need to do estimated calculations for that. 

A few comments and questions based on this:

- £5k is a lot for a 2.5kWp system. Is that how much it cost? Typically a system of 4kWp could be purchased for that price.

- 185kWh of output seems quite low for a 2.5kWp system in 27 in August, although if you add another 4 days at the same rate it is 212kWh.

- 42 units (kWh?) is very low usage for 27 days and the method for estimating this (comparing with the same period in a previous year) is not a reliable estimation method for usage. Are you a very low consumer of electricity?

- Agile rates over August averaged over 30p/kWh, so that equates to over £60 if you sold everything you generated for August. However, it may turn out to be an exceptional month.

5k is the price I saw on one document, regarding payback period. But in all Likleyhood it was less, but the local council paid for it and it went through 3 contactors so value for money for the council wasn't great. I'm not complaining but the way the scheme works meant there was a lot of extra layers than just going direct to a local company. My house also was scaffolded on 2 sides, 1 of which had to go over another roof so probably more expense there.

I've been monitoring the system and the afternoons seem to underperform where 4 of the panels get the daylight, dips a fair bit due to cloud at first I thought I had a issue but looking at the cloud coverage I can see this is likely to be correct. But what would you say the correct usage would be? I was expecting around 10 a day. I had that once. 

42 units isnt usage. Its the difference in my meter from this year to last during the same 27day period. (obviously some slight calculation to bring it down to 27 days. Last August 8th to 4th September I used 185 units this year I used 143 units. Needless to say this isn't exact science I may of used more power last year than I normally would for this period. I would say I'm a lower than most user of electricity.

Is agile rates usually that high? 

Going back even if I spent £3000 on the system I don't think it would make financial sense. But from a green perspective definitely, anything which can cut our carbon footprint can only be good thing. But even with that in mind you have to look at the impact it makes mining and producing the system, and ensure minimal parts end up as waste at the end of its life span.

Hexane

Skintsaver said:

Magnitio said:

Skintsaver said:

Personally I wouldn't spend 5k on them I had mine installed under a grant. Before I wouldn't have had them installed and now seeing the saving after 27days I still can't recommend having them. (I happy with mine only due to the grant)

Mines a 2.5kw system 4panels face west 2 face east. Over 27 days I've produced 185kw. Which looking back at the same period last year I've used 42 units less. A saving of £12.18(29p/kwh) for just under a month. When I get a smart meter the remaining 143kw can be sold back at 7.5p/kwh at £10.72. So a total of £23 saving for 1 month. Bear in mind this is probably the month I'll produce the most. Even at £23 every month it'll take 20 years to earn over £5k.

So do I think it's worth it definitely not! 

Add to the future maintenance of changing inverters ect.. Best thing is to buy the most energy efficient appliances turn off what your not using.

Though i wonder what Agile will save me, I need to do estimated calculations for that. 

A few comments and questions based on this:

- £5k is a lot for a 2.5kWp system. Is that how much it cost? Typically a system of 4kWp could be purchased for that price.

- 185kWh of output seems quite low for a 2.5kWp system in 27 in August, although if you add another 4 days at the same rate it is 212kWh.

- 42 units (kWh?) is very low usage for 27 days and the method for estimating this (comparing with the same period in a previous year) is not a reliable estimation method for usage. Are you a very low consumer of electricity?

- Agile rates over August averaged over 30p/kWh, so that equates to over £60 if you sold everything you generated for August. However, it may turn out to be an exceptional month.

But even with that in mind you have to look at the impact it makes mining and producing the system,

Is there an impact of mining and producing the materials involved? Isn't it a silicon crystalline ingot cut into a super thin sheet?

and ensure minimal parts end up as waste at the end of its life span.

The wiring is presumably copper, so most electricians will have contacts in the waste metal recycling industry desperate to come round and take it away. Cheaply melted down and made into new copper products with absolutely no waste. The inverter can go as electrical waste just like all the other electrical junk we throw away. That leaves the tiny amounts of rare earth metals in the panels themselves, and the plastic coating - that's really not very much at all when we're looking at a 25 to 35 year potential lifespan.