80% increase on the cap??

[Deleted User]

pochase said:

Astria said:

[Deleted User] said:

Add the standing charge and the >100% that you quote drops much closer to the published 80% - and if the OP included it and used the average units it would match.

For your electricity example (rough numbers) it would change from 1520/820 (85% increase) down to 1640/940 (75% increase).

I'd love to see your calculations for that because if I include the standing charge, which is basically 1p on gas/electric, that's £8.25 per year more, so the total ends up £3333 instead of £3325, so it's still 100%.

I don't know where you get your figures from.

Why would you only add the increase and not the full standing charges? 

Because that would get too close to admitting that OFGEM's numbers were right.

Astria

[Deleted User] said:

pochase said:

Astria said:

[Deleted User] said:

Add the standing charge and the >100% that you quote drops much closer to the published 80% - and if the OP included it and used the average units it would match.

For your electricity example (rough numbers) it would change from 1520/820 (85% increase) down to 1640/940 (75% increase).

I'd love to see your calculations for that because if I include the standing charge, which is basically 1p on gas/electric, that's £8.25 per year more, so the total ends up £3333 instead of £3325, so it's still 100%.

I don't know where you get your figures from.

Why would you only add the increase and not the full standing charges? 

Because that would get too close to admitting that OFGEM's numbers were right.

Instead of making snide comments, how about explaining exactly how you get to your conclusion so the rest of us can learn? Isn't that the point of this site? If you want to just make personal attacks this isn't the place for it.

Regardless, the increase in the standing charge is still only £8, so it's not going to make a 20% difference!

Sea_Shell

A small (or no) increase in the standing charge will have the effect of pulling down the overall AVERAGE increase, when the totals are taken as a whole.

You can't take out one bit.  SC, gas or electric.


Eg

SC - 0% increase
Electricity - 100% increase
Gas - 50% increase

What's the "average" increase?

[Deleted User]

I did - you've even quoted my numbers in your post (although I've actually under-remembered the cost).

Electricity annual standing charge is about £160, and is (as you've pointed out) only going up by £8.

Your 'old' £820 should therefore be £980 including standing charge.  Your 'October' £1520 should be £1690 including standing charge.

£980 going up to £1690 is not an 85% increase in your bill.

Same applies for gas.

PennineAcute

Using Ofgem's average numbers of 12000 kWh of gas and 2900 kWh of elec, which is what the cap is based on, you get (for the North West)

April Cap
2900 *  0.2808 + 12000 * .0734 + (.422+.2722) * 365 = 1948.51

October Cap
2900 *  0.5132+ 12000 * .1425+ (.4326+.2849) * 365 = 3460.17

(3460.17 - 1948.51) / 1948.51 * 100 = 78% (rounded to the nearest whole number).  Bearing in mind that my unit rates and standing charges could be slightly out - 78% is not much different to 80%

Astria

[Deleted User] said:

I did - you've even quoted my numbers in your post (although I've actually under-remembered the cost).

Electricity annual standing charge is about £160, and is (as you've pointed out) only going up by £8.

Your 'old' £820 should therefore be £980 including standing charge.  Your 'October' £1520 should be £1690 including standing charge.

£980 going up to £1690 is not an 85% increase in your bill.

Same applies for gas.

Your post was confusing because you were using totally different numbers and I had no idea how to got these numbers.

But yes, I should have added the standing charges to both, Sea_Shell explained why this made such a difference, so thanks for him for explaining it.

So we are now comparing £916 and £1622, a 76% increase and £1008 and £1975, a 95% increase, so a total of 86%.

pochase

Here with the published single digit figures



As mentioned, the real figures are slightly different, so especially gas will make a difference, been 0.3p more for April and 0.2p less in October.

As you can see you need to use the full standing charge and not just the increase.

TheTone79

pochase said:

Here with the published single digit figures



As mentioned, the real figures are slightly different, so especially gas will make a difference, been 0.3p more for April and 0.2p less in October.

As you can see you need to use the full standing charge and not just the increase.

Thanks for clarifying. Very clear