Pet clause in deeds..... Help

Chudo

It was to a storages area, I'm sure it was a deed avariation.

eddddy

Chudo said:

It was to a storages area, I'm sure it was a deed avariation.

What did that deed of variation do? 

I doubt it cancelled any covenants (i.e. rules) in the lease.


I think it's very unlikely that you'll be able to get a 'no pets' covenant (rule) cancelled.



Edit to add...

The above assumes that the covenant says "No pets".

If the covenant says "No pets without consent"...

... then you don't need a deed of variation, you just need a letter of consent from the freeholder.

Waunakee

We had a similarly worded clause in a recently sold apartment.

Over the 16 years of ownership several requests were made by others in the block to keep a small pet which were always denied.

One new owner did breach the clause by attempting to bring in a house cat which led to what can only be described the breakout of neighbourhood warfare.That poor little innocent ball of fluff caused so much trouble!

Disputes broke out between flats,court proceedings threatened and it led to an awful lot of general unpleasantness.Needless to say the cat was apparently rehomed which was unfortunate but the line needed to be drawn.

andy444

As above, check the exact words of what is said. I can't remember the precise wording but I used to live somewhere where the deeds said you were not allowed to keep a pet that may be considered a nuisance to neighbouring properties. I suspect it was just to make sure that nobody kept several huskies barking all day in a flat. 

There's always a chance that although it may be included in the deeds that pets are prohibited, it may not actually be enforced if the cats don't bother anyone and nobody can be bothered to ensure you get rid of your cats or proceed with eviction protocols. 

TBagpuss

Whether you will be able to get a variation pobably depends a lot on who the freeholders are.

If they are a large coroparion and own lots of flats, they may well refuse as it's easir for thm not to make exceptions.

If it is a small block where the freeholders are a management company owned by the leaseholders/ residents then if none of then individuals inovled objects then you may hv more luk.

Have you seen anything to suggest that others have pets in the block? 

I think if you had indoor cats then there would be less liklihood of anyone else knowing or caring, if the cats are used to going outside you only need one person to get upset that thy are 9or are suspectd of) using the garden for toileting and you could face having to re-home them. 

In your position, I would not proceed any further until ou know for certain that the freeholders will agree a variation or that the wrding only requires permission and that it will be granted, unless yu are willing to rehome the cats in order to get the flat. 

eddddy

TBagpuss said:

Whether you will be able to get a variation pobably depends a lot on who the freeholders are.

If they are a large coroparion and own lots of flats, they may well refuse as it's easir for thm not to make exceptions.

If it is a small block where the freeholders are a management company owned by the leaseholders/ residents then if none of then individuals inovled objects then you may hv more luk.

It doesn't really work like that.

Freeholders generally cannot vary the covenants of individual flats - even if they want to. It's a fundamental aspect of of how leases are constructed.

In simple terms, some people might buy a flat in a particular block, because of the covenants in all the leases... for example:

• Nobody in the block is allowed to keep pets
• Nobody in the block is allowed to sublet
• Everybody has to carpet their floors

The leases are constructed in a way that doesn't allow the freeholder to override those covenants for one (or more) flats.

Again in simple terms, everyone has to stick to the same set of rules - and the freeholder isn't allowed to make exceptions.

Gavin83

I think even if you kept the cats indoors and they weren’t any problem you’re still not guaranteed no complaints. All it takes is for someone who was denied a pet who then thinks “well why are they allowed when I wasn’t” to kick off.

I agree with some of the others. Unless you’re prepared to give up the cats you need to make sure this won’t be a problem before buying.

AlexMac

Have you got your facts straight? 

And does the fact that you're asking us bunch of random geeks on the web, rather than your solicitor, mean you're not getting clear replies from her or him? 

You say:
" the deeds say there is a no pet clause which says no birds, reptiles dogs or other animals... I know that you can have a deed avariation which we are quite happy to do....our solicitor doesn't seem majorly concerned and we are happy to pay that fee to change the deed..."

... which all seems a bit imprecise? 

Are you sure you mean deeds because all the five leasehold flats I've bought referred to pets in the lease not the deeds? The leases, in each case said something like "no pets other than with the Freeholder's consent". 

I understand your concerns.  When we last sold a flat, the issue of pets was a potential deal-breaker for our buyer, who wanted our flat because it was on the ground floor of a big Victorian conversion, with direct access to a large, secure, communal garden and she wanted it for her little dog.

So, as it was a "shared freehold" with no managing agents involved (we - the leaseholders - were all Directors and ran the Freehold Company ourselves) I just got the Company Secretary (our friendly upstairs neighbour) to send her a letter of reassurance.

So
- what does the lease (if I'm right) actually say,
-what does your solicitor actually say needs to be done,
- will that solution be bombproof if any neighbours give you grief,
- will it add any time to the conveyanceing process, and
- how much extra will it cost?

I'm no expert, but I thought Deeds addressed other stuff?  I did once have to get the vendor to pay for a "deed of variation" - at a cost of only about £50-100.  But that was because the "Title" - the Deed and associated title plan was incompetent; contradictory in terms of whether bits of the terrace next to our flat were for our sole use, or part of the communal grounds accessible to other leaseholders.  We didn't care, but our solicitor's eagle - eyed conveyancing lass said we had to get it sorted or it could come back to bite us when we eventually sold on. 

But having said all that about asking more specific and picky questions before your solicitor racks up all the costs and presents you with the full report on Title and the outcome of searches and Freeholder Enquiries; confession time;  
- We had outdoor cats in one garden flat, and we just ignored the lease; we didn't even ask!
- Our granddaughter now has a couple of indoor cats in another (ex-local authority) leasehold flat which we own as a BTL; ditto!
No-one ever complained about either bunch of mogs

london21

Find out if cats are allowed from the leaseholder.

If not allowed might have to find another property, it is not decided by the seller but the leaseholders. 

Chudo

london21 said:

Find out if cats are allowed from the leaseholder.

If not allowed might have to find another property, it is not decided by the seller but the leaseholders. 

That doesn't make any sense