My mother's energy bills

ariarnia

you can aclimatise to heat. it could be that the house is actually at 25 degrees and the reason it doesn't feel very warm to you is because you are used to it being that temperature because you live there every day. i don't know where you live but i think today was fairly warm (about 18 or 19 today I think). did you go outside and did it feel cool or warm (in general and compared to inside?)

chris_n

Georget79 said:

BUFF said:

Georget79 said:

BUFF said:

Georget79 said:

BUFF said:

Georget79 said:

macman said:

Temp varies between 20C and 30C?! Tell us you're not serious!
20C is a reasonable average. 21C is about the max that most people are comfortable with. If you are seriously turning it up to 30C, then you've answered your own question: it will never achieve that temp, but in trying to do so the boiler would be running full bore all the time. Is it on 24/7 in the heating season?
She will get £400 credited back on her electricity bills in 6 bites from October, plus the usual WFP and the additional pensioner allowance., so £500  if 77. Plus £150 CT credit on bands A to D.
If she has dementia, then she may count as SMI and so can be disregarded for C Tax, which means that you will get a 25% SPD discount, if there are no other adult residents.
Check the loft insulation is up to standard, very easy to fix if not.

I've just checked and the radiators don't even come on unless the dial is past 25. Would this indicate a faulty boiler? I'll be giving them a call.

Or a faulty thermostat. As mentioned already if you can get some form of thermometer to verify what the actual room temperature(s) is/are that will help narrow things down.

Can you say what exact make/model of boiler, programmer, room thermostat & if TRVs are fitted?

Yes I'll get a thermostat to check the actual room temperature. The boiler is a Potterton Promax combi HE plus. The thermostat is just a box on the wall with a dial, no logo. It does appear there are TRV's on the radiator. There is dials to turn up the heat on them, although having had a look online I see there are some quite intelligent TRV's so not sure they are the same thing you are referring to. 

Is there a TRV fitted in the same room as the wall thermostat? (this would generally be considered a bad thing as they can conflict - if there is open the TRV to max)
What setting are the TRVs generally set at?

No TRV in the hall where the thermostat is. The rest are set differently, living room is max, as is her bedroom. Set to zero all upstairs, full in kitchen and bathroom we change it about. 

What is the wall thermostat set to normally ( 20-30C is a big difference)?
Max/5 on a TRV is usually 28-30C depending upon the manufacturer. 4 would be ~25C, 3 ~21C.
Obviously if the wall thermostat is set to 20C then your bedroom is unlikely to ever hit 28C (unless there is an additional heat source) as the system will have been shut down by the wall stat. 

btw I don't know how cold it gets upstairs but I would set them to * (frost, usually ~7-8C) in order to prevent any potential frozen pipes & hence expensive leaks.

At the moment 20 during the day if its warm outside and 30 from evening onwards. I really need to get to grip with all the settings in relation to the TRV's as I've always let it go over my head. I don't think it works properly either, it's what I'm thinking after seeing all the replies. She's due a boiler and gas service so I'll get them in.

I just read the gas meter too. Since their reading on 9th August she's used 920 khw, so 43.809 per day average. According to their readings between 12th May and 9th August she used 5,943 khw. That's an 89 day period so averages 66.775 khw per day? 

I find it hard to believe gas usage has gone down that much in the last 21 days compared to what we'd be using during peak summer months with all the heatwaves we had? Or am I missing something here... 

I wouldn't waste money getting a boiler with a pilot light serviced, they belong in the last century. A new condensing system boiler run correctly (assuming the radiators etc are the correct size) would pay for itself within 2 heating seasons

Georget79

macman said:

System might also need a flush. Are the rads still cold at the bottom when hot at the top? Have you bled the system recently? Is the combi showing correct pressure, usually around 1 bar?

Radiator hottest at top and at half way is half as warm, getting cooler further down. I don't think they've been bled recently. Pressure bar is at 1

Georget79

chris_n said:

Georget79 said:

BUFF said:

Georget79 said:

BUFF said:

Georget79 said:

BUFF said:

Georget79 said:

macman said:

Temp varies between 20C and 30C?! Tell us you're not serious!
20C is a reasonable average. 21C is about the max that most people are comfortable with. If you are seriously turning it up to 30C, then you've answered your own question: it will never achieve that temp, but in trying to do so the boiler would be running full bore all the time. Is it on 24/7 in the heating season?
She will get £400 credited back on her electricity bills in 6 bites from October, plus the usual WFP and the additional pensioner allowance., so £500  if 77. Plus £150 CT credit on bands A to D.
If she has dementia, then she may count as SMI and so can be disregarded for C Tax, which means that you will get a 25% SPD discount, if there are no other adult residents.
Check the loft insulation is up to standard, very easy to fix if not.

I've just checked and the radiators don't even come on unless the dial is past 25. Would this indicate a faulty boiler? I'll be giving them a call.

Or a faulty thermostat. As mentioned already if you can get some form of thermometer to verify what the actual room temperature(s) is/are that will help narrow things down.

Can you say what exact make/model of boiler, programmer, room thermostat & if TRVs are fitted?

Yes I'll get a thermostat to check the actual room temperature. The boiler is a Potterton Promax combi HE plus. The thermostat is just a box on the wall with a dial, no logo. It does appear there are TRV's on the radiator. There is dials to turn up the heat on them, although having had a look online I see there are some quite intelligent TRV's so not sure they are the same thing you are referring to. 

Is there a TRV fitted in the same room as the wall thermostat? (this would generally be considered a bad thing as they can conflict - if there is open the TRV to max)
What setting are the TRVs generally set at?

No TRV in the hall where the thermostat is. The rest are set differently, living room is max, as is her bedroom. Set to zero all upstairs, full in kitchen and bathroom we change it about. 

What is the wall thermostat set to normally ( 20-30C is a big difference)?
Max/5 on a TRV is usually 28-30C depending upon the manufacturer. 4 would be ~25C, 3 ~21C.
Obviously if the wall thermostat is set to 20C then your bedroom is unlikely to ever hit 28C (unless there is an additional heat source) as the system will have been shut down by the wall stat. 

btw I don't know how cold it gets upstairs but I would set them to * (frost, usually ~7-8C) in order to prevent any potential frozen pipes & hence expensive leaks.

At the moment 20 during the day if its warm outside and 30 from evening onwards. I really need to get to grip with all the settings in relation to the TRV's as I've always let it go over my head. I don't think it works properly either, it's what I'm thinking after seeing all the replies. She's due a boiler and gas service so I'll get them in.

I just read the gas meter too. Since their reading on 9th August she's used 920 khw, so 43.809 per day average. According to their readings between 12th May and 9th August she used 5,943 khw. That's an 89 day period so averages 66.775 khw per day? 

I find it hard to believe gas usage has gone down that much in the last 21 days compared to what we'd be using during peak summer months with all the heatwaves we had? Or am I missing something here... 

I wouldn't waste money getting a boiler with a pilot light serviced, they belong in the last century. A new condensing system boiler run correctly (assuming the radiators etc are the correct size) would pay for itself within 2 heating seasons

There's no pilot light, its a relatively new boiler. She has a homecare plan anyway so the service will be free

Georget79

ariarnia said:

you can aclimatise to heat. it could be that the house is actually at 25 degrees and the reason it doesn't feel very warm to you is because you are used to it being that temperature because you live there every day. i don't know where you live but i think today was fairly warm (about 18 or 19 today I think). did you go outside and did it feel cool or warm (in general and compared to inside?)

It was 16 today where we are, I went outside for a while, felt a bit cooler but not by much, very close actually. Thermostat arriving tomorrow so I'll be able to check for sure. 

chris_n

Georget79 said:

chris_n said:

Georget79 said:

BUFF said:

Georget79 said:

BUFF said:

Georget79 said:

BUFF said:

Georget79 said:

macman said:

Temp varies between 20C and 30C?! Tell us you're not serious!
20C is a reasonable average. 21C is about the max that most people are comfortable with. If you are seriously turning it up to 30C, then you've answered your own question: it will never achieve that temp, but in trying to do so the boiler would be running full bore all the time. Is it on 24/7 in the heating season?
She will get £400 credited back on her electricity bills in 6 bites from October, plus the usual WFP and the additional pensioner allowance., so £500  if 77. Plus £150 CT credit on bands A to D.
If she has dementia, then she may count as SMI and so can be disregarded for C Tax, which means that you will get a 25% SPD discount, if there are no other adult residents.
Check the loft insulation is up to standard, very easy to fix if not.

I've just checked and the radiators don't even come on unless the dial is past 25. Would this indicate a faulty boiler? I'll be giving them a call.

Or a faulty thermostat. As mentioned already if you can get some form of thermometer to verify what the actual room temperature(s) is/are that will help narrow things down.

Can you say what exact make/model of boiler, programmer, room thermostat & if TRVs are fitted?

Yes I'll get a thermostat to check the actual room temperature. The boiler is a Potterton Promax combi HE plus. The thermostat is just a box on the wall with a dial, no logo. It does appear there are TRV's on the radiator. There is dials to turn up the heat on them, although having had a look online I see there are some quite intelligent TRV's so not sure they are the same thing you are referring to. 

Is there a TRV fitted in the same room as the wall thermostat? (this would generally be considered a bad thing as they can conflict - if there is open the TRV to max)
What setting are the TRVs generally set at?

No TRV in the hall where the thermostat is. The rest are set differently, living room is max, as is her bedroom. Set to zero all upstairs, full in kitchen and bathroom we change it about. 

What is the wall thermostat set to normally ( 20-30C is a big difference)?
Max/5 on a TRV is usually 28-30C depending upon the manufacturer. 4 would be ~25C, 3 ~21C.
Obviously if the wall thermostat is set to 20C then your bedroom is unlikely to ever hit 28C (unless there is an additional heat source) as the system will have been shut down by the wall stat. 

btw I don't know how cold it gets upstairs but I would set them to * (frost, usually ~7-8C) in order to prevent any potential frozen pipes & hence expensive leaks.

At the moment 20 during the day if its warm outside and 30 from evening onwards. I really need to get to grip with all the settings in relation to the TRV's as I've always let it go over my head. I don't think it works properly either, it's what I'm thinking after seeing all the replies. She's due a boiler and gas service so I'll get them in.

I just read the gas meter too. Since their reading on 9th August she's used 920 khw, so 43.809 per day average. According to their readings between 12th May and 9th August she used 5,943 khw. That's an 89 day period so averages 66.775 khw per day? 

I find it hard to believe gas usage has gone down that much in the last 21 days compared to what we'd be using during peak summer months with all the heatwaves we had? Or am I missing something here... 

I wouldn't waste money getting a boiler with a pilot light serviced, they belong in the last century. A new condensing system boiler run correctly (assuming the radiators etc are the correct size) would pay for itself within 2 heating seasons

There's no pilot light, its a relatively new boiler. She has a homecare plan anyway so the service will be free

Sorry wrong thread,there is another one running where the boiler is old with a pilot light.

Georget79

chris_n said:

Georget79 said:

chris_n said:

Georget79 said:

BUFF said:

Georget79 said:

BUFF said:

Georget79 said:

BUFF said:

Georget79 said:

macman said:

Temp varies between 20C and 30C?! Tell us you're not serious!
20C is a reasonable average. 21C is about the max that most people are comfortable with. If you are seriously turning it up to 30C, then you've answered your own question: it will never achieve that temp, but in trying to do so the boiler would be running full bore all the time. Is it on 24/7 in the heating season?
She will get £400 credited back on her electricity bills in 6 bites from October, plus the usual WFP and the additional pensioner allowance., so £500  if 77. Plus £150 CT credit on bands A to D.
If she has dementia, then she may count as SMI and so can be disregarded for C Tax, which means that you will get a 25% SPD discount, if there are no other adult residents.
Check the loft insulation is up to standard, very easy to fix if not.

I've just checked and the radiators don't even come on unless the dial is past 25. Would this indicate a faulty boiler? I'll be giving them a call.

Or a faulty thermostat. As mentioned already if you can get some form of thermometer to verify what the actual room temperature(s) is/are that will help narrow things down.

Can you say what exact make/model of boiler, programmer, room thermostat & if TRVs are fitted?

Yes I'll get a thermostat to check the actual room temperature. The boiler is a Potterton Promax combi HE plus. The thermostat is just a box on the wall with a dial, no logo. It does appear there are TRV's on the radiator. There is dials to turn up the heat on them, although having had a look online I see there are some quite intelligent TRV's so not sure they are the same thing you are referring to. 

Is there a TRV fitted in the same room as the wall thermostat? (this would generally be considered a bad thing as they can conflict - if there is open the TRV to max)
What setting are the TRVs generally set at?

No TRV in the hall where the thermostat is. The rest are set differently, living room is max, as is her bedroom. Set to zero all upstairs, full in kitchen and bathroom we change it about. 

What is the wall thermostat set to normally ( 20-30C is a big difference)?
Max/5 on a TRV is usually 28-30C depending upon the manufacturer. 4 would be ~25C, 3 ~21C.
Obviously if the wall thermostat is set to 20C then your bedroom is unlikely to ever hit 28C (unless there is an additional heat source) as the system will have been shut down by the wall stat. 

btw I don't know how cold it gets upstairs but I would set them to * (frost, usually ~7-8C) in order to prevent any potential frozen pipes & hence expensive leaks.

At the moment 20 during the day if its warm outside and 30 from evening onwards. I really need to get to grip with all the settings in relation to the TRV's as I've always let it go over my head. I don't think it works properly either, it's what I'm thinking after seeing all the replies. She's due a boiler and gas service so I'll get them in.

I just read the gas meter too. Since their reading on 9th August she's used 920 khw, so 43.809 per day average. According to their readings between 12th May and 9th August she used 5,943 khw. That's an 89 day period so averages 66.775 khw per day? 

I find it hard to believe gas usage has gone down that much in the last 21 days compared to what we'd be using during peak summer months with all the heatwaves we had? Or am I missing something here... 

I wouldn't waste money getting a boiler with a pilot light serviced, they belong in the last century. A new condensing system boiler run correctly (assuming the radiators etc are the correct size) would pay for itself within 2 heating seasons

There's no pilot light, its a relatively new boiler. She has a homecare plan anyway so the service will be free

Sorry wrong thread,there is another one running where the boiler is old with a pilot light.

Haha no worries, cheers

macman

Georget79 said:

macman said:

System might also need a flush. Are the rads still cold at the bottom when hot at the top? Have you bled the system recently? Is the combi showing correct pressure, usually around 1 bar?

Radiator hottest at top and at half way is half as warm, getting cooler further down. I don't think they've been bled recently. Pressure bar is at 1

If cold at the bottom, the system is sludged up and needs flushing. Sounds in a dire state. If they're hot at the top, there's no air in them. You'll never get to the set temp if the hot water can't circulate properly.

markin

Get a magnet filter fitted if the isn't one on the heating system.

"small electric plug-in heater" That explains the huge electric use then, could it be on and be the reason the heating won't click on until 25c?

Georget79

markin said:

Get a magnet filter fitted if the isn't one on the heating system.

"small electric plug-in heater" That explains the huge electric use then, could it be on and be the reason the heating won't click on until 25c?

It won't click on until 25 regardless if the heater is on or not, but we're getting rid of it now anyway.